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Federal Criminal TrialtranscripttranscriptDaniel Edlin — Cross/Redirect/Recross (Continued) - Day 22 - Federal Criminal TrialDaniel Edlin completed cross, redirect, and recross testimony concerning Theranos’s military projects, demonstrations, external claims, and reported results before the court excused him and recessed the jury.
John C. BosticRobert S. LeachKevin M. DowneyEdward J. DavilaDaniel EdlinMr. DowneyDaniel EdlinMr. BosticJudge DavilaCourt ClerkJurorMr. Leachcrossproceduralredirectrecross
2 pages·1 witness·2,489 lines
Daniel Edlin completed cross, redirect, and recross testimony concerning Theranos’s military projects, demonstrations, external claims, and reported results before the court excused him and recessed the jury.
Proceedings
Cross 1Daniel Edlin — CrossLine 6
Procedural 1Customer Feedback Reports Admissibility HearingLine 13
Cross 2Daniel Edlin — Cross (Resumed)Line 15
RedirectDaniel Edlin — RedirectLine 25
RecrossDaniel Edlin — RecrossLine 6
Procedural 2End-of-Day Jury AdmonitionLine 9

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: GOOD MORNING, MR. EDLIN.

DANIEL EDLIN: GOOD MORNING.

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO BEGIN TODAY BY ASKING YOU TO LOOK IN THE NOTEBOOK THAT I GAVE YOU AT EXHIBIT 7694. DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BURN STUDY WHICH THERANOS COLLABORATED WITH DR. CHUNG?

MR. DOWNEY: WERE THE RESULTS OF THAT STUDY ULTIMATELY PUBLISHED?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS EXHIBIT 7694 A COPY OF THAT PUBLISHED STUDY?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 7694.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 7694 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE OF THAT EXHIBIT, IS THAT A SCIENTIFIC CHARACTERIZATION OF THE STUDY AND THE TITLE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT -- IF I COULD DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SEVENTH PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT, YOU'LL SEE STARTING IN THE BOTTOM LEFT-HAND CORNER, THERE'S A SERIES OF ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT YOU AND MS. HOLMES AND DR. CHUNG WERE ACKNOWLEDGED FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE IN CONNECTION WITH THIS STUDY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL THAT THIS STUDY TOOK PLACE OVER FOUR YEARS?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU WOULD LOOK BACK AT THE FIRST PAGE, DO YOU SEE THAT THE PUBLICATION OF THIS STUDY WAS IN EARLY 2017?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS ABOUT FIVE YEARS AFTER THE EXHIBIT THAT THE GOVERNMENT WENT THROUGH WITH YOU WHERE YOU FORWARDED A PRESENTATION TO DR. CHUNG. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK AT THAT EXHIBIT. IT'S IN YOUR GOVERNMENT BINDER AND IT'S EXHIBIT 551. AND I THINK YOU TESTIFIED -- DO YOU HAVE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS IS ALREADY ADMITTED, YOUR HONOR. I THINK YOU TESTIFIED THAT DR. CHUNG HAD BEEN INVOLVED WITH THERANOS FOR A PERIOD BEFORE YOUR INITIAL CONTACT WITH HIM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU TO FLIP THROUGH, WITHOUT REALLY STUDYING, PAGES 36 AND FORWARD IN THIS PRESENTATION UNTIL THE END OF THE PRESENTATION ON PAGE 80.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT MOST OF THIS PRESENTATION IS DATA THAT THERANOS WAS PROVIDING TO DR. CHUNG ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE OF ITS ASSAYS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE ON PAGE 36 THAT THERE IS A LIST OF ABOUT EIGHT ASSAYS AND SOME DATA ABOUT HOW THEY PERFORM?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS DATA, IN LAYMAN'S TERMS, THAT THEY SHOW A STRAIGHT LINE AND YOU LOOK FOR HOW CLOSE THE DOTS ARE TO THAT LINE TO EVALUATE THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE ASSAY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE A STRAIGHT LINE WOULD BE A CORRELATION OF 1.0, AND THAT CLOSER TO THAT STRAIGHT LINE, THE HIGHER THE CORRELATION.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND DO YOU SEE, IF YOU LOOK THROUGH THIS, THAT SOME OF THE CORRELATIONS ARE QUITE GOOD, LIKE ON PAGE 36 IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THE CORRELATION IS .999?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT DO YOU SEE IN OTHER PLACES IN THE PRESENTATION THAT THE CORRELATION IS LESS GOOD? LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION, FOR EXAMPLE, TO SLIDE NUMBER 48, WHICH IS ON TRIAL PAGE -- TRIAL EXHIBIT PAGE 52. AND DO YOU SEE HERE ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH ASSAYS BASED ON URINE, THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT DROP IN THE PERCENTAGE OF CORRELATION FROM .999 TO .966; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE I WOULD CONSIDER THAT A SIGNIFICANT DROP.

DANIEL EDLIN: IT'S HUNDREDTHS OF THE PERCENTAGE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT IT VARIES FROM THE .999 IN THE OTHER ASSAY?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT DOES VARY.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU CONTINUE FORWARD THROUGH THE PRESENTATION, YOU SEE THAT THERE IS JUST DATA ABOUT A NUMBER OF THE ASSAYS THAT THERANOS HAD DEVELOPED; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND ALL OF THAT WAS PRESENTED TO DR. CHUNG; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT DR. CHUNG HAD THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT DATA?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DO. I HAVE NO REASON TO DOUBT IT.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU KNOW WHAT AUDIENCE DR. CHUNG WAS PRESENTING THIS DATA TO?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'D HAVE TO JUST LOOK EARLIER IN THE EMAIL.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME JUST ASK YOU IF YOU LOOK BACK AT PAGE -- AT EXHIBIT 551 AT THE TOP OF PAGE 3.

DANIEL EDLIN: CLINICAL -- IT SAYS CLINOPS.

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. AND HE SUGGESTS HE'S GOING TO SHARE IT WITH THE CLINOPS GUY IN THE MILITARY?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU KNOW WHO CLINOPS ARE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

MR. DOWNEY: I THINK YOU'VE TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU -- YOU CAN PUT THOSE EXHIBITS ASIDE. I THINK YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU HAD DISCUSSIONS, ON THERANOS'S BEHALF, WITH THE UNITED STATES AFRICAN COMMAND. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOUR PRINCIPAL CONTACT AT THE UNITED STATES AFRICAN COMMAND WAS DR. MELISSA GIVENS; IS THAT RIGHT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE SHORTHAND REFERENCE FOR THE UNITED STATES AFRICAN COMMAND IS AFRICOM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S THE UNIFIED COMMAND OF ALL OF THE MILITARY SERVICES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAVE SOME OPERATION IN AFRICA; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT POSITIVE ON THE SPECIFIC DIRECTION.

MR. DOWNEY: AND COLONEL GIVENS WAS A SENIOR MEDICAL OFFICER WITHIN AFRICOM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10444.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP OF THAT EMAIL, DO YOU SEE THAT THIS IS A SERIES OF EMAIL CHANGES BETWEEN YOU AND DR. GIVENS AND MS. HOLMES RELATED TO POTENTIAL WORK BY THERANOS WITH AFRICOM?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 10444.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10444 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: COULD I DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SECOND PAGE OF THIS EXHIBIT, WHICH I'LL DISPLAY ON THE SCREEN. AND IS THIS AN EMAIL THAT DR. GIVENS SENT TO YOU AND MS. HOLMES IN APRIL OF 2012?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SHE'S LOOKING TO SET UP A MEETING WITH YOU AND MS. HOLMES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE ASKS THE QUESTION, "HAS THERE BEEN ANY PROGRESS IN CONFIGURING A SYSTEM THAT WE WOULD SOON BE ABLE TO --" AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE NEXT WORD IS, EITHER EMPLOY OR DEPLOY, "SOON TO AFRICA?" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HAD YOU BEEN HAVING DISCUSSIONS AT THIS TIME WITH DR. GIVENS ABOUT DEPLOYING THE SYSTEM TO AFRICA?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS WERE UNDERWAY.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, SHE GOES ON TO DETAIL THE KIND OF SYSTEM THAT SHE WOULD BE ABLE TO OPERATE WITH IN AFRICA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE'S DESCRIBING A BLOOD ANALYZER HERE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE'S DESCRIBING THE FEATURES OF A BLOOD ANALYZER THAT WOULD WORK FOR HER FOR, AT LEAST AN INITIAL EVALUATION AND DEPLOYMENT IN AFRICA; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND SENTENCE OF THAT PARAGRAPH, SHE SAYS, "I HAVE SEVERAL TRIPS TO AFRICA COMING UP IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS AND REALLY WANT TO TEST THE EQUIPMENT/PROCESS AND THEN MOVE FORWARD WITH FIELDING IT FOR FULL TIME USE IF THE TEST RUNS GO WELL." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE WAS TRYING TO ARRANGE A MEETING WITH YOU AND MS. HOLMES TO PURSUE THAT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: DID YOU ULTIMATELY HAVE A MEETING WITH DR. GIVENS TO PURSUE THAT KIND OF AN ARRANGEMENT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I RECALL HAVING ONE MEETING IN PERSON WITH HER. IT WAS LIKELY BEFORE THIS, ALTHOUGH I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT YOU CONTINUED DISCUSSIONS AFTER THIS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF DEPLOYING A DEVICE IN AFRICA WITH COLONEL GIVENS?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE IN THIS -- IN THE REFERENCE IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH ASKING ABOUT PROGRESS, SHE REFERS TO CONFIGURING A SYSTEM. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

DANIEL EDLIN: CUSTOMIZING THE SYSTEM FOR THIS SPECIFIC USE CASE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO THE THERANOS ANALYZERS WEREN'T JUST OFF-THE-SHELF PRODUCTS. IF THEY WERE USED FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE CUSTOMIZED FOR THAT PURPOSE; IS THAT RIGHT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN YOU SEE IF THE TEST WENT WELL, SHE WANTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH DEPLOYING THE DEVICE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT TEST DID GO FORWARD; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THERE WAS, THERE WAS A STUDY WITH HER, WITH -- YES.

MR. DOWNEY: AND AFTER THE DISCUSSION WITH HER, DID SHE WORK ON DESIGNING A PROTOCOL FOR THAT STUDY?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 13993. YOUR HONOR, MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS?

MR. DOWNEY: THIS IS NOT IN HIS NOTEBOOK.

(HANDING.)

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP OF EXHIBIT 13993, DO YOU SEE THAT THIS IS A SERIES OF EMAILS BETWEEN YOU AND DR. GIVENS FROM JUNE OF 2012 RELATED TO DEPLOYING AN AFRICAN -- A THERANOS DEVICE FOR AFRICOM?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 13993.

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, NO OBJECTION. I JUST NOTE THAT THIS EXHIBIT IS MISSING THE ATTACHMENT, OR APPEARS TO BE.

JUDGE DAVILA: SAY AGAIN.

MR. BOSTIC: THERE APPEARS TO BE AN ATTACHMENT TO THIS EMAIL THAT THIS EXHIBIT IS MISSING.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, I'D BE HAPPY TO SUPPLEMENT THAT, YOUR HONOR, AND I'LL FIND THE ATTACHMENT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND I'LL ATTACH IT AS EXHIBIT A TO 13993.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. 13993 IS ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED. AND YOU'LL SUPPLY AN ATTACHMENT AS NEEDED.

MR. DOWNEY: YES, SIR.

JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13993 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. DOWNEY: IF WE CAN GO ON THE SCREEN TO THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 2 OF THIS SERIES OF EMAILS.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING HERE WITH DR. GIVENS SOME OF THE DETAILS OF THE CUSTOMIZATION OF THE DEVICE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT IF YOU GO UP -- AND YOU'RE ASKING HER A SERIES OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE CARTRIDGES WILL BE STORED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HOW THE DEVICE WILL BE POWERED, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAST SECTION OF THE EMAIL?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN YOU ASK HER, IN THE SECOND TO LAST QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF THE EMAIL, YOU ASK, "HOW WILL THE DEVICE BE TRANSPORTED IN THE FIELD? DO YOU PLAN ON KEEPING THE DEVICE IN ITS PACKAGING IN BETWEEN USE? WHAT KIND OF CONDITIONS MIGHT BE ON THE MEDEVAC FROM GERMANY TO UGANDA?" DO YOU SEE YOU WERE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHY WERE YOU ASKING HER THOSE QUESTIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE THIS INFORMATION WAS REQUESTED BY SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF THE TEAM THAT OPERATE, THAT OPERATED THE DEVICE, AND IT WAS CUSTOMIZING THE DEVICE.

MR. DOWNEY: SO THAT WOULD BE DR. YOUNG AND PEOPLE WORKING UNDER HIM?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE RESPONDS TO THIS EMAIL BEGINNING ON THE PRIOR PAGE AND SHE DESCRIBES THE LOGISTICS THAT THE DEVICE WILL GO THROUGH TO GET TO AFRICA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE DESCRIBES IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH THAT THE EQUIPMENT WILL BE FLOWN COMMERCIALLY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN IN THE LAST PART OF THAT PARAGRAPH, SHE DESCRIBES WHAT -- THE SITE WHERE THE DEVICE WILL BE LOCATED, THE CONDITIONS THERE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE INDICATES THERE'S NO AIR CONDITIONING IN THE BUILDING AND THE TEMPERATURE WILL BE BETWEEN 100 AND 110 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE ALSO DETAILS HOW SHE'S GOING TO SHIP THE DEVICE. AND SO YOU'RE WORKING ON ALL OF THOSE LOGISTICS WITH HER; RIGHT?

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK TOWARD THE SECOND TO THE LAST SENTENCE, SHE GOES ON AGAIN TO EMPHASIZE THAT THE TEMPERATURES WILL RANGE FROM 100 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT WITH HIGH HUMIDITY, BUT THEN IN FLIGHT THE TEMPERATURES WILL DROP TO ABOUT 60 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT. DO YOU SEE THAT? THAT'S ON THE SECOND PAGE TOWARDS THE END OF THAT EMAIL.

DANIEL EDLIN: I DO SEE THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: SO YOU'RE WORKING ON THIS PROTOCOL WITH HER KNOWING THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A DEPLOYMENT IN SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS POTENTIALLY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WERE INFORMING THE SCIENTISTS AT THERANOS THAT THESE WOULD BE THE CONDITIONS?

MR. DOWNEY: IN PART BECAUSE THIS WAS INFORMATION THAT THEY HAD ASKED FOR; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE DEVICE WAS CONFIGURED BY THE SCIENTISTS AT THERANOS TO DEAL WITH THOSE EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. YOUR HONOR, MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS AGAIN?

MR. DOWNEY: (HANDING.)

MR. DOWNEY: I'M SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT 13986. IS THIS AN EMAIL BETWEEN DR. YOUNG AND MS. HOLMES AND YOURSELF AND CHRISTIAN HOLMES RELATED TO THERANOS'S AFRICOM DEPLOYMENT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 13986.

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, APOLOGIES. I DON'T SEE A BATES NUMBER ON THIS DOCUMENT.

MR. DOWNEY: WE HAVE RECOVERED IT FROM -- WE DID NOT GET IT OUT OF THE PRODUCTION FROM THERANOS. I'D BE HAPPY TO EXPLAIN TO THE COURT HOW WE DID.

JUDGE DAVILA: DO YOU HAVE A --

MR. DOWNEY: I THINK THE WITNESS HAS AUTHENTICATED IT.

JUDGE DAVILA: RIGHT, HE HAS. AND, MR. BOSTIC, YOU'RE CONCERNED THAT THIS IS OUTSIDE OF DISCOVERY?

MR. BOSTIC: THAT'S MY CONCERN, YOUR HONOR. I'M JUST RAISING IT AS A QUESTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: RIGHT. I'LL ADMIT IT NOW, AND WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT LATER, BUT I THINK THE FOUNDATION IS THERE. SO IT'S ADMITTED, AND IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13986 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. DOWNEY: I'LL SHOW YOU AND BLOW UP THE TOP OF THIS EMAIL SO IT'S EASIER TO SEE.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM DR. YOUNG TO YOU IN JUNE OF 2012 RELATED TO THE AFRICOM PROJECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE'S REPORTING TO YOU ABOUT TESTING THAT HE DID ON THE DEVICE THAT IS BEING SENT TO DR. GIVENS FOR DEPLOYMENT IN AFRICA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE REPORTS THAT HE'S DONE "48 HOURS OF CONTINUAL TESTING OF THE READER AT 110 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT COMPLETED SUCCESSFULLY TONIGHT. WE RAN 100 PROTOCOLS SEQUENTIALLY - SO I FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT RELIABILITY FOR THIS DEPLOYMENT." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS CONFIGURATION OF THE DEVICE RELATED TO THE TEMPERATURE IN AFRICA?

DANIEL EDLIN: THIS REFRESHES MY RECOLLECTION.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND DID YOU THEN SEND THE DEVICE TO DR. GIVENS FOR DEPLOYMENT IN AFRICA?

MR. DOWNEY: CAN I ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10446.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN YOU AND DR. GIVENS AND MS. HOLMES RELATED TO THE AFRICOM DEPLOYMENT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT 10446.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10446 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. DOWNEY: CAN WE BLOW UP THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE EMAIL.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS A REPORT THAT DR. GIVENS HAD GIVEN YOU AFTER SHE HAD TAKEN THE DEVICE TO AFRICA AND USED IT IN LOCATIONS OVER THERE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE SHE REPORTED, "I MADE IT BACK FROM 2 TRIPS TO AFRICA AND MANAGED TO WORK THROUGH ALL THE CASES IN THE PROTOCOL." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHEN SHE REFERS TO THE PROTOCOL, THIS WAS NOT ACTUAL TESTING ON PATIENTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE STUDY WAS NOT DESIGNED TO CONDUCT ACTUAL BLOOD TESTING ON PATIENTS, WAS IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT WAS NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: AT DR. GIVENS'S REQUEST, THE RESULTS THAT WERE TO BE GENERATED WERE ARTIFICIAL RESULTS AND SHE WAS TESTING THE VIABILITY OF THE DEVICE IN A DEPLOYED ENVIRONMENT; RIGHT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE GOES ON TO SAY, "THE MACHINE TRAVELED WELL AND FUNCTIONED WELL. MY ONLY COMPLAINT IS THE TOUCH SCREEN - VERY FRUSTRATING." AND WAS SHE REFERRING THERE TO THE INTERFACE ON THE FRONT OF THE THERANOS ANALYZER?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE HAD SOME DIFFICULTY OPERATING THAT INTERFACE?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND THEN SHE GOES ON TO REPORT THAT SHE'LL BE PREPARING A FULL REPORT AND SHE'LL HAVE SEVERAL PICTURES OF THE MACHINE BEING USED IN CAMEROON, UGANDA, AND SOUTH SUDAN. IS THIS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAD LEARNED THAT SHE HAD ACTUALLY DEPLOYED THE DEVICE IN THOSE LOCATIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE THERE WAS PREVIOUS COMMUNICATION ABOUT CAMEROON AND UGANDA, BUT I THINK THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I HAD HEARD OF SOUTH SUDAN.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN SHE GOES ON TWO PARAGRAPHS LATER TO WRITE, "BECAUSE THE MACHINE SEEMED TO FUNCTION WELL IN THE ENVIRONMENT, I AM GOING TO WRITE A PRE-PROPOSAL TO SUBMIT TO THE U.S. SOCOM." THAT'S A REFERENCE TO SPECIAL OPERATIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE WAS HOPING TO GAIN FUNDING FOR A FULL PROPOSAL; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY THAT MR. BOSTIC SHOWED YOU AN EXHIBIT RELATED TO QUESTIONS ABOUT THE OPERATION OF THE DEVICE IN EXTREME TEMPERATURES?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO PULL THAT BACK UP, WHICH IS ALREADY IN EVIDENCE, AND I'LL PULL IT ON THE SCREEN. IT'S EXHIBIT 5435. AND I'LL DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION AND ASK THAT THE SCREEN BE DIRECTED TO PAGE 4 OF THAT EXHIBIT. AND DO YOU RECALL MR. BOSTIC SHOWING YOU THIS YESTERDAY WITH THE COMMENTS OF SEVERAL OF THE SCIENTISTS ABOUT WHETHER THE DEVICE COULD OPERATE IN EXTREME TEMPERATURES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU HAD RAISED QUESTIONS WITH THIS -- REGARDING THIS WITH DR. YOUNG; CORRECT? THAT'S --

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S THE REFERENCE TO DANIEL?

MR. DOWNEY: AND AT THIS TIME YOU HADN'T HEARD BACK FROM HIM; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN BELOW THAT YOU HAD ALSO ASKED QUESTIONS OF MR. FRENZEL, CORRECT, GARY FRENZEL?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MR. FRENZEL WAS NOT A HARDWARE PERSON AT THERANOS, WAS HE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE HE WAS ON THE SCIENCE AND CHEMISTRY SIDE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND HE SAYS, "THE EDISON DID NOT HAVE A WAY TO COOL DOWN. THEY WOULD HAVE SHUT DOWN." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, MR. FRENZEL WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THE AFRICOM PROJECT, WAS HE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND AFTER THE DEPLOYMENT BY DR. GIVENS, THE DEVICE DID NOT SHUT DOWN, DID IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT SHUTTING DOWN.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. DO YOU RECALL THAT SHE REPORTED BACK TO YOU THAT THE DEVICE FUNCTIONED WELL?

MR. DOWNEY: LET'S GO DOWN TO THE NEXT TWO COMMENTS. THESE ARE ALSO COMMENTS FROM INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE NOT INVOLVED IN THE AFRICOM DEPLOYMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S TRUE OF TONY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE BOTTOM, IT REFERENCES SUREKHA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S A REFERENCE TO MS. GANGAKHEDKAR?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT. I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHO WAS INVOLVED WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE EQUIPMENT AND CARTRIDGES AND THE DEVICE, BUT SHE WAS ON ONE OF THE ASSAY DEVELOPMENT -- SHE LED ONE OF THE ASSAY DEVELOPMENT TEAMS.

MR. DOWNEY: SHE DID SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT MR. FRENZEL DID?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID.

MR. DOWNEY: OTHER THAN DR. YOUNG, DO YOU KNOW WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE PREPARATION OF THE DEVICE A YEAR BEFORE THIS EMAIL?

DANIEL EDLIN: DANIEL HAD A TEAM, AND I BELIEVE AT THAT TIME I JUST INTERACTED WITH DANIEL ABOUT THIS.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS ON MR. -- DR. YOUNG'S TEAM?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. I WANT TO ASK YOU NOW ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THERANOS AND CENTCOM. DO YOU RECALL DURING THE COURSE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP YOU HAD CONTACT WITH A DOCTOR AT CENTCOM NAMED ERIN EDGAR?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK AT EXHIBIT 588, WHICH IS IN EVIDENCE. I WANT TO SHOW YOU AT THE TOP OF THIS A DATE BY WHICH DISCUSSIONS WERE HAPPENING BETWEEN THERANOS AND CENTCOM RELATED TO A POTENTIAL DEPLOYMENT. DO YOU SEE THAT THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS AT LEAST AS EARLY AS APRIL 24TH, 2012?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU KNOW IF DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN CENTCOM AND THERANOS REGARDING A POTENTIAL THERANOS DEPLOYMENT HAD BEEN GOING ON BEFORE APRIL OF 2012?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE.

MR. DOWNEY: ULTIMATELY I THINK YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT CENTCOM DID APPROVE A LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT TO EVALUATE THERANOS'S TECHNOLOGY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10457. IF YOU'LL LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE, IS THIS AN EMAIL FROM YOU TO MS. HOLMES FORWARDING THE MILITARY'S APPROVAL OF THAT LOE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS APPROVAL WAS SENT TO MS. HOLMES IN DECEMBER OF 2012; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU KNOW WHY IT TOOK FROM EARLIER IN THE YEAR, APRIL OF 2012 AT LEAST, UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR FOR AN EXPERIMENT TO BE APPROVED BY THE MILITARY?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S JUST HOW LONG IT TOOK TO PLAN IT AND HAVE BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE COMPANIES TO ALIGN ON THE, ON THE GOALS OF THE OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SOME OF THAT RELATES TO CUSTOMIZATION OF THE DEVICE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOME OF IT RELATES TO THE MILITARY DECIDING WHAT ASSAYS IT WANTS TO USE IN CONNECTION WITH THE EXPERIMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER ASPECTS TO DEALING WITH THE GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY THAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH AND CUT THROUGH TO GET THE EXPERIMENT APPROVED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE IN THE EMAIL AT THE TOP OF 10457 THAT YOU INDICATE THAT EVEN IN THE APPROVAL --

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, I DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS IN EVIDENCE.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, I WASN'T GOING TO ADMIT IT, BUT I'LL MOVE TO ADMIT 10547.

JUDGE DAVILA: ANY OBJECTION?

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10457 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE IN THE SECOND SENTENCE, MS. HOLMES -- YOU'RE TELLING MS. HOLMES THAT EVEN AS THIS WAS APPROVED, THE MILITARY HAD ADJUSTED THE ASSAYS THAT IT WANTED FOR THE LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DO SEE THAT, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAD ADDED ABOUT FOUR NEW ASSAYS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, AFTER THE EXPERIMENT WAS APPROVAL BY THE MILITARY, I THINK YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU TRAVELED TO A MILITARY BASE WITH THE DEVICE; IS THAT RIGHT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT WAS SHIPPED THERE. BUT I DID TRAVEL THERE, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND SO YOU -- THE DEVICE WAS SHIPPED, BUT YOU ALSO WENT THERE AND SHOWED THE DEVICE TO MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT. WELL, THEY -- I THINK IT WAS A MIX OF CONTRACTORS AND MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND WAS ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF THAT TO EVALUATE WHETHER OR NOT THE DEVICE WAS SECURE SO THAT IT COULD BE DEPLOYED?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DID THERANOS'S DEVICE PASS THOSE SECURITY TESTS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: WERE THERE ANY SPECIAL CONFIGURATIONS THAT HAD TO BE MADE TO THE DEVICE TO QUALIFY IT TO BE PART OF AN EXPERIMENT WITH THE MILITARY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THOSE?

DANIEL EDLIN: UM, I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

MR. DOWNEY: WERE THERE ANY MODIFICATIONS, FOR SECURITY PURPOSES, THAT HAD TO BE MADE TO THE DEVICE FOR THIS PROGRAM?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES. THERE WAS CONCERN FROM -- MAINLY FROM SUNNY THAT GIVING THE DEVICE TO THE TEAM THAT TESTED IT IN -- DURING THAT TESTING WOULD OPEN UP A POSSIBILITY OF INFORMATION BEING DISCLOSED THAT SUNNY DID NOT WANT BEING DISCLOSED. HE THOUGHT THAT IT LEFT OPEN THE CHANCE THAT ANYONE LOOKING AT THE DEVICE WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS AND CONFIGURATIONS IN THE DEVICE, AND HE DID NOT WANT TO GIVE THAT OPEN OF A DEVICE TO THOSE TESTING IT. SO HE -- PER HIS DIRECTION, THE TEAM OF ENGINEERS, I THINK, DISABLED SOME OF THE PORTS SO THAT THE PEOPLE TESTING IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RUN A FULL SET OF TESTS, I BELIEVE.

MR. DOWNEY: AND HOW LONG DID THAT RECONFIGURATION TAKE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T REMEMBER.

MR. DOWNEY: WHEN YOU SHOWED THE DEVICE TO THE MILITARY, DID THEY HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THE HARDWARE IN CONNECTION WITH THE MILITARY USE?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECALL THEM SAYING THAT THEY THOUGHT THE DEVICE WAS TOO BIG?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES, TOO BIG AND TOO HEAVY.

MR. DOWNEY: AND WAS THE DEVICE THAT YOU HAD TAKEN -- STRIKE THAT. WAS THE DEVICE THAT YOU HAD SHIPPED A 4.0 MONOBAY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN RESPONSE TO THAT FEEDBACK FROM THE MILITARY, DID THERANOS BEGIN TO WORK ON A SPECIALIZED MILITARY DEVICE?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES, THE 4S.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL THE DATE OF THAT TRIP TO THE MILITARY BASE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2013.

MR. DOWNEY: AND WAS THAT THE MACDILL AIR FORCE BASE IN TAMPA?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, SHORTLY AFTER THAT TRIP, DID PERSONS IN THE MILITARY BEGIN TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU SAYING THAT THEY WANTED TO DEPLOY THE DEVICE RIGHT AWAY?

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY WERE INTERESTED IN DEPLOYING THE DEVICE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 10472. IS THIS AN EMAIL FROM YOU TO VARIOUS MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY AND VARIOUS THERANOS PERSONNEL THAT IS PART OF A LONG CHAIN OF COMMUNICATIONS RELATED TO THE THERANOS CENTCOM PROJECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND EMAIL ON THE FIRST PAGE, THERE'S A COMMUNICATION FROM A JAMES SOMMER. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: WHO IS JAMES SOMMER?

DANIEL EDLIN: JAMES SOMMER WORKED AT CENTCOM. I BELIEVE HE WAS AN ARMY SCIENCE ADVISOR, AND HE WORKED TO -- WORKED WITH THERANOS TO HELP TO SECURE THE DEVICES FOR THE STUDY, OBTAIN THE DEVICES FOR THE STUDY.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO HE SENT THIS IN FEBRUARY OF 2013; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS WAS JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AFTER THE LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT WAS USED; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

MR. DOWNEY: THIS WAS JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AFTER THE LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT HAD BEEN APPROVED BY THE MILITARY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHEN IT WAS APPROVED.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME JUST ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK AT EXHIBIT 10457, WHICH WAS JUST ADMITTED A MOMENT AGO, AND WE CAN DISPLAY THE FIRST PAGE OF THAT.

DANIEL EDLIN: YEP. YES.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE ON THE TOP THAT THAT'S AN EMAIL AT LEAST OF YOU FORWARDING IT TO MS. HOLMES IN DECEMBER; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN BELOW THAT THERE'S AN INDICATION THAT THE APPROVAL MAY HAVE BEEN IN NOVEMBER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SO MR. SOMMER IS COMMUNICATING TO YOU IN FEBRUARY THAT THINGS WERE GETTING MESSED UP WITH THE SEQUESTRATION. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE INDICATED THAT THAT WOULD AFFECT THE UPCOMING LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE SAID -- ESSENTIALLY ASKED YOU TO SHIP THE DEVICE SOON BECAUSE OTHERWISE HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO TRAVEL TO THEATRE WITH IT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, YOU RESPONDED TO THIS EMAIL THAT SAME DAY. DO YOU SEE THAT ABOVE?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. YOUR HONOR, I WOULD MOVE TO ADMIT 10472.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10472 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: AND ON THE TOP OF THIS PAGE, DO YOU SEE THAT YOU'RE RESPONDING TO MR. SOMMER'S SUGGESTION THAT THE DEVICE HAD TO BE SHIPPED SOON. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT THE PARAGRAPH THAT IS IN ITALICS. AND YOU TELL HIM IN THIS EMAIL, "AS PER OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS, THE 4S DEVICES WE ARE SHIPPING HAVE BEEN SPECIALLY BUILT FOR THE PURPOSES OF OUR LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS TRUE?

DANIEL EDLIN: TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU SAID, "IN SO DOING WE HAVE HAD TO REVALIDATE AND RETEST EVERY ASPECTS OF THE DEVICE CONFIGURATION TO ENSURE THAT THESE SYSTEMS MEET OUR STANDARDS AND EXPECTATIONS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU UNDERSTOOD FROM DR. YOUNG AND OTHERS THAT THAT WAS TRUE; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: AND FROM ELIZABETH, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: AND FROM MR. BALWANI; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IN THE NEXT SENTENCE YOU SAY THAT "WE HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY ACCELERATED THERANOS'S PREVIOUSLY PLANNED RELEASE OF 4S IN ORDER TO MEET OUR OBJECTIVES FOR THIS PROGRAM." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS TRUE AS FAR AS YOU KNEW?

MR. DOWNEY: HAD YOU BEEN FAMILIAR BEFORE WITH THE SCHEDULE FOR RELEASE OF THE MILITARY 4S?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, DID YOU KNOW WHAT THE SCHEDULED RELEASE DATE ORIGINALLY WAS FOR THE 4S AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IF YOU SEE THE NEXT SENTENCE, YOU GO ON TO SAY, "FURTHER, WE HAVE ADDED ADDITIONAL FEATURES TO OUR USER INTERFACE CAPABILITIES FOLLOWING OUR VTC SESSION WITH MAJOR NELSON, AND WE HAVE BEEN INCORPORATING NEWLY RECEIVED INFORMATION FROM --" IS THAT LIEUTENANT COLONEL ROMERO?

MR. DOWNEY: "-- TO ENSURE THAT THE DEVICE IS ABLE TO OPERATE UNDER THE I.T. AND SECURITY REQUIREMENTS OF THE NETWORK IN THEATRE." AND WAS THAT A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE COMPANY HAD BEEN DOING AS A RESULT OF THE FEEDBACK THAT YOU GOT AT THE MEETING AT THE MACDILL AIR FORCE BASE?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S WHAT I WAS TOLD.

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU TOLD HIM THAT THESE PROCESSES GUIDED OUR DELIVERY TIMELINES. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN YOU -- YOU GO ON TO SAY IN THE LAST SENTENCE, "AS A RAPIDLY GROWING COMPANY, WE ARE" -- "AS A RAPIDLY GROWING COMPANY WE ARE MANAGING THESE TIMELINES AS BEST AS POSSIBLE WHILE MAKING SURE THAT THE INTEGRITY OF OUR PRODUCTS AND PROGRAM GOALS ARE NOT COMPROMISED." NOW, YOU COULD OBSERVE EVERY DAY THAT THIS WAS A RAPIDLY GROWING COMPANY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU KNEW YOU WERE WORKING HARD IN CONNECTION WITH THIS PROJECT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: THIS IS A PROJECT THAT YOU WANTED -- PERSONALLY WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN HAPPEN; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOUR WORK HERE WAS DESIGNED TO BENEFIT BOTH THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT ALSO MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY WHO MIGHT BENEFIT FROM THIS DEPLOYMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU PROCEEDED IN GOOD FAITH IN TRYING TO DO THAT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS AFTER THIS EXCHANGE WITH MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY ABOUT DEPLOYING THE 4S DEVICE AT CENTCOM?

MR. DOWNEY: AND I THINK WE SAW YESTERDAY THAT THERE WAS AN EXCHANGE ABOUT REQUESTING THAT THE DEPLOYMENT BE DEFERRED UNTIL 2014. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK AT EXHIBIT 1027. AND IF YOU SEE ON THE TOP HERE, THIS IS AN EMAIL, DRAFT EMAIL THAT YOU SENT TO MS. HOLMES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU PROPOSED A DATE, BASED ON YOUR CONVERSATION WITH DR. ANEKAL, OF AUGUST 1ST FOR THE DEPLOYMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WAS THAT DEPLOYMENT THEN DEFERRED UNTIL AUGUST 1ST OF 2014?

DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, IT DIDN'T INITIATE ON AUGUST 1ST.

MR. DOWNEY: CORRECT. BUT AS OF AUGUST 1ST, 2013, WAS THE DATE OF DEPLOYMENT DEFERRED UNTIL AUGUST 1ST, 2014?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DID YOU CONTINUE TO WORK IN CONNECTION WITH THIS PROGRAM AFTER AUGUST 1ST OF 2013?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WERE ALSO WORKING ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES RELATED TO THE RETAIL LAUNCH; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WERE WORKING ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES RELATED TO RAISING MONEY FOR INVESTORS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SAY THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, YOU HAD SOME DUTIES THAT TOOK TIME FROM YOUR CALENDAR, DIDN'T YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU HAD A NUMBER OF OTHER DUTIES THAT ALSO WERE IMPORTANT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS WAS AN ENVIRONMENT THAT WAS VERY HECTIC; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND I THINK YOU'VE TESTIFIED ON DIRECT THAT YOU OBSERVED MS. HOLMES WORKING VERY HARD EVERY DAY. CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT YOU ALSO WERE WORKING VERY HARD EVERY DAY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET'S TALK FOR A FEW MINUTES ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THERANOS AND THE SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND. SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND IS THE UNIFIED COMMAND FOR ALL OF THE MILITARY SERVICES SPECIAL OPERATIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK AT EXHIBIT 504, WHICH IS IN EVIDENCE AND WHICH MR. BOSTIC SHOWED YOU DURING HIS EXAMINATION. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP OF THE EMAIL ON PAGE 1, WHICH IS BLOWN UP ON YOUR SCREEN, THIS IS A DIALOGUE FROM A LITTLE BIT EARLIER IN TIME BETWEEN SPECIAL OPERATIONS AND THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: THIS IS FROM JANUARY OF 2012; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THIS DOCUMENT, YOU ASKED A REPRESENTATIVE OF SOCOM TO PROVIDE A COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF ALL OF THE ASSAYS THAT SOCOM PLANNED TO TEST IN CONNECTION WITH ITS EVALUATION OF THERANOS DEVICES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHY DID YOU NEED THAT INFORMATION?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT INFORMATION WAS NEEDED IN ORDER TO CUSTOMIZE ALL OF THE EQUIPMENT.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 13977, WHICH IS IN THE NOTEBOOK THAT I JUST GAVE YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EXCHANGE OF EMAILS BETWEEN YOURSELF AND REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MILITARY RELATED TO POTENTIALLY DEPLOYING THERANOS EQUIPMENT FOR SPECIAL OPERATIONS?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT 13977.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED AND IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13977 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO GO TO THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 2.

MR. DOWNEY: THIS IS A DOCUMENT BEING FORWARDED TO YOU BY AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED NATHAN JORDAN. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS?

DANIEL EDLIN: A CONTRACTOR.

MR. DOWNEY: A MILITARY --

DANIEL EDLIN: A MILITARY CONTRACTOR, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: A MILITARY CONTRACTOR. AND HE'S FORWARDING YOU HERE A COUNTERSIGNED MODIFICATION FOR YOUR RECORDS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DOES THAT REFER TO A MODIFICATION OF THE AGREEMENT THAT HAD BEEN ENTERED INTO BETWEEN SPECIAL OPERATIONS AND -- SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND AND THERANOS TO CONDUCT AN EXPERIMENT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IF YOU RECALL THE DOCUMENT THAT I SHOWED YOU A MOMENT AGO, IT WAS DATED JANUARY 2012; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE DOCUMENT WAS STILL BEING MODIFIED MORE THAN A YEAR LATER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: STRIKE THAT. AND THE TERMS OF THE RELATIONSHIP WERE STILL BEING NEGOTIATED MORE THAN A YEAR LATER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SO THIS WAS IN FEBRUARY OF 2013; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT -- I'M SORRY, THE NEXT EMAIL UP TOWARDS THE TOP OF THE PAGE. THIS IS AN EMAIL SENT TO YOU BY STEPHANIE ELDER. WHO WAS STEPHANIE ELDER?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T REMEMBER HER EXACT TITLE, BUT SHE WAS PART OF THE MILITARY. I WAS IN DISCUSSIONS WITH HER REGARDING PLANS FOR THIS STUDY.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND SO IN APRIL OF 2013, SHE ASKED YOU FOR AN UPDATE ON WHERE YOU ARE WITH THE DEVICES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS IS ABOUT TWO MONTHS AFTER THE MODIFICATION HAD BEEN SIGNED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT. DO YOU SEE THAT YOU RESPONDED TO HER SAYING, "THANK YOU FOR YOUR EMAIL; I HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL. WE HAVE BEEN PREPARING FOR THIS AND I AM HOPING TO CONNECT WITH YOU, IF YOU THINK IT WOULD BE OF VALUE, TO DISCUSS THE PLANS FOR INITIATING OUR PROGRAM." AND YOU GIVE HER A PHONE NUMBER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU CAN GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT. THIS IS ABOUT FIVE DAYS LATER. YOU SAY, "I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU SAW MY EMAIL." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU HEARD FROM HER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND LET'S GO TO THE NEXT EMAIL. THIS IS ABOUT A MONTH LATER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU SENT ANOTHER EMAIL TO MS. ELDER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU ASKED HER AGAIN TO CONNECT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT, YOU FOLLOWED UP AGAIN IN JULY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SO YOU WERE TRYING TO CONNECT WITH MS. ELDER ABOUT THE DETAILS OF DEPLOYING A DEVICE, AND AT LEAST IN THIS PERIOD SHE WAS NOT BEING RESPONSIVE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. ULTIMATELY, I THINK YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY, THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SHIP SOME DEVICES TO SOCOM; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ARE THOSE THE MODIFIED DEVICES THAT YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER TODAY THAT WERE MODIFIED PER MR. BALWANI'S DIRECTION?

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY'RE DIFFERENT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. WERE THEY 4S DEVICES?

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY WERE 4S DEVICES.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DID SOCOM PERFORM THE EXPERIMENT WITH THOSE DEVICES?

MR. DOWNEY: DID YOU EVER HEAR FROM SOCOM AS TO WHY?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO TURN TO A DIFFERENT TOPIC. DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING YESTERDAY WITH MR. BOSTIC A NUMBER OF DEMONSTRATIONS THAT THERANOS DID FOR VARIOUS VIP'S?

MR. DOWNEY: AND I THINK YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU PLAYED SOME ROLE WITH REGARD TO THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU WERE A COORDINATOR OF THE LOGISTICS?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND YOU WOULD DO THINGS LIKE MAKE SURE THE ROOM WAS SET UP; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THE ENGINEERS HAD GOTTEN THE DEVICES INTO THE ROOM THAT MR. BALWANI OR MS. HOLMES EXPECTED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WOULD WORK WITH OTHERS ON THE TEAM AT THERANOS TO ENSURE THAT THE DEMONSTRATION WAS READY TO GO; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES IN A PARTICULAR DEMONSTRATION THERE MIGHT BE AS MANY AS 15 TO 20 PEOPLE INVOLVED; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THE COMPANY, AT THERANOS, INVOLVED IN PREPARING?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME STRIKE THAT. I THINK WE SAW YESTERDAY SOME EMAILS BETWEEN YOU AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THERANOS WHO WERE SCIENTISTS RELATED TO THE DEMONSTRATIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ANY NUMBER OF THOSE SCIENTISTS MIGHT BE INVOLVED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WITH THE DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND DR. YOUNG WAS THE TECHNICAL LEAD FOR THE DEMONSTRATIONS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: HE ULTIMATELY REVIEWED AND APPROVED ALL OF THE RESULTS FROM THE DEMOS.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND HE WOULD, HE WOULD WORK WITH THE SCIENTISTS TO GET READY FOR THE DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF ANY SCIENTIFIC OR TECHNICAL ISSUES AROSE, HE WAS THE PERSON WHO WAS THERE TO ADDRESS THEM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THERE WERE -- I THINK THERE WERE SPECIFIC INSTANCES WHERE OTHER ENGINEERS WOULD ADDRESS PROBLEMS AS WELL.

MR. DOWNEY: IN SOME INSTANCES IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY WORKING UNDER DR. YOUNG; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT TEAMS ON THE HARDWARE SIDE, AND I KNOW THAT -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER DANIEL MANAGED ALL OF THEM.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO THERE MIGHT BE AN EXAMPLE OF AN INSTANCE WHERE THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH RESPECT TO THE HARDWARE AND YOU TALK TO A HARDWARE ENGINEER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND AT THE END, I THINK -- DID YOU SAY THAT DR. YOUNG WOULD VERIFY THE SAMPLE? OR WHAT WAS THE TERMINOLOGY THAT YOU USED?

DANIEL EDLIN: REVIEW, APPROVE, AND VERIFY.

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, NOT ALL OF THE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE THE SAME; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SOME TOOK PLACE IN LOCATIONS THAT WERE AWAY FROM THERANOS; RIGHT?

MR. DOWNEY: MS. HOLMES AND OTHERS MIGHT TRAVEL TO SOMEONE ELSE'S OFFICE AND PERFORM A DEMONSTRATION THERE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES THE DEMONSTRATION WOULD BE AT THERANOS'S HEADQUARTERS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WERE THERE INSTANCES WHERE EVEN SOME INDIVIDUALS WANTED TO GO TO THE WALGREENS STORE AND HAVE A DEMONSTRATION THERE?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES. THEY WENT TO THE WALGREENS STORE. I WOULD CONSIDER THAT DIFFERENT FROM A DEMONSTRATION BECAUSE IN WALGREENS IT WAS -- THAT WAS THE CLINICAL LAB TESTING PROCESS VERSUS A DEMONSTRATION, WHICH WAS SEPARATE.

MR. DOWNEY: SO THOSE WHO WENT TO WALGREENS GOT AN ACTUAL CLINICAL TEST; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: THEY, THEY MIMICKED WHAT ANY PATIENT COMING IN WHO WANTED A BLOOD TEST FROM WALGREENS WOULD GET?

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 7244.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS AT THERANOS, INCLUDING YOURSELF, RELATED TO A DEMONSTRATION THAT WAS DONE IN 2012?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT 7244.

MR. BOSTIC: HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: WERE RECORDS RELATED TO THE DEMONSTRATIONS THAT WERE PERFORMED AT THERANOS PREPARED CONTEMPORANEOUS WITH THE DEMONSTRATION?

DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: SURE. WERE -- SOMETIMES DEMONSTRATIONS WERE PERFORMED AT THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WOULD BE DETAILS RELATED TO THE LOGISTICS OF SETTING UP THE DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE MIGHT BE DETAILS ABOUT MAKING ARRANGEMENTS AFTER THE DEMONSTRATION WAS PERFORMED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND INDIVIDUALS AT THERANOS WOULD COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER BY EMAIL OFTEN ABOUT THAT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THOSE COMMUNICATIONS WOULD BE AROUND THE SAME TIME AS THE DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND EMAILS AT THERANOS WERE PRESERVED IN THE THERANOS SYSTEM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT 7244.

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, SAME OBJECTION. THIS EMAIL SEEMS TO BE AFTER THE FACT FROM THE PROCESSES THAT MR. DOWNEY WAS ASKING ABOUT.

JUDGE DAVILA: IS THIS CONTEMPORANEOUS WITH THE DEMONSTRATION THAT YOU'RE SEEKING?

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, IT'S A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER BECAUSE IT'S A REPORT BACK FROM AN INDIVIDUAL WHO PARTICIPATED.

JUDGE DAVILA: SO I THINK FOR 803(6), MAYBE YOU CAN DEVELOP A LITTLE MORE FOUNDATION ON THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME ASK YOU, WAS THIS EMAIL COMMUNICATED TO MS. HOLMES?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, UNDER 803 I THINK I'M ENTITLED TO ADMIT IT.

JUDGE DAVILA: I'LL ADMIT IT. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 7244 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE FIRST PAGE. DO YOU SEE THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM MR. BALWANI IN 2012 ABOUT A DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SUBJECT, IT'S ABOUT A DEMONSTRATION THAT WAS DONE IN THE MIDDLE OF JULY IN 2012 IN CHICAGO. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS ABOUT A LITTLE OVER A YEAR BEFORE THE RETAIL LAUNCH IN WALGREENS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE REFERENCE TO CHICAGO CAUSES ME TO ASK, WAS THIS A DEMONSTRATION DONE FOR WALGREENS EXECUTIVES?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT POSITIVE, BUT THEY DID HAVE OFFICES IN ILLINOIS.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT MR. BALWANI WAS REPORTING BACK ON INFORMATION THAT HE LEARNED ABOUT THE DEMONSTRATION IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF HIS EMAIL AT THE BOTTOM?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT HE'S COMMUNICATING THAT TO DR. YOUNG; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND TO VARIOUS REPRESENTATIVES OF ASSAY TEAMS WITHIN THE COMPANY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ALSO TO PERSONNEL WHO WORKED ON THE HARDWARE AT THE COMPANY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND TO THE CLINICAL, THEN CLINICAL LAB DIRECTOR; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HAD ALL OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS BEEN INVOLVED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WITH PREPARING FOR THIS DEMONSTRATION?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT OFTEN PERSONNEL, THE PERSONNEL IN ALL OF THOSE CATEGORIES WOULD BE INVOLVED IN PREPARING FOR A DEMONSTRATION?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE IF I WOULD SAY THAT ALWAYS.

MR. DOWNEY: BUT YOU DO RECALL OCCASIONS WHERE PERSONNEL FROM THE ASSAY TEAM, THE HARDWARE TEAM, DR. YOUNG, AND OTHER SCIENTISTS WERE INVOLVED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU SEE THE REPORT THAT MR. BALWANI GIVES IN THE PARAGRAPH THAT BEGINS, "I HEARD BACK," HE REPORTS THAT HE HEARD BACK FROM AN EXECUTIVE THAT THEY HAD PERFORMED A DEMONSTRATION ON, AND HE REPORTS THAT THE EXECUTIVE'S RESULTS FROM THE DEMONSTRATION WERE IDENTICAL TO RESULTS THAT THE EXECUTIVE GOT FROM A DOCTOR. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, YOU WERE SHOWN YESTERDAY A NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS THAT RELATED TO DEMONSTRATIONS WHERE THERE WAS A DISCUSSION BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS AT THERANOS RELATED TO SOME DISCREPANCY OR UNCERTAINTY ABOUT THE RESULTS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT DOZENS OF DEMONSTRATIONS WERE PERFORMED AT THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MANY OF THEM RESULTED IN REPORTS BACK FROM THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE DEMONSTRATION THAT THE RESULTS WERE SIMILAR OR IDENTICAL TO THOSE THAT THEY RECEIVED FROM OTHER BLOOD TESTS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I REALLY DIDN'T RECEIVE COMMUNICATION BACK FROM THE INDIVIDUALS WHO DID THE DEMO REGARDING THEIR TEST RESULTS.

MR. DOWNEY: YOU DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DID NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. NOW, AS WELL AS BEING AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS -- BY THE WAY, WITH REGARD TO THE DEMONSTRATION THAT WE JUST LOOKED AT, THAT'S A DEMONSTRATION WHERE THE DEVICE WAS TAKEN TO CHICAGO; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S A DEMONSTRATION THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN RUN WHERE THE BLOOD WAS DRAWN FROM THE EXECUTIVE; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I WASN'T THERE, BUT, YES, THAT'S WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND THEN THAT WOULD BE INSERTED INTO A CARTRIDGE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE CARTRIDGE WOULD BE INSERTED INTO THE ANALYZER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE BLOOD TEST RESULTS WOULD BE GENERATED FROM THAT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S ONE FORM OF DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT? THERE ARE OTHER FORMS OF DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AT SOME POINTS PEOPLE WOULD COME TO THERANOS AND THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE THEIR BLOOD DRAWN, BUT THEY WOULD WANT TO SEE HOW THE DEVICE WORKED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEY MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THE INTERFACE OF THE DEVICE, FOR EXAMPLE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO US WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WAS CONVEYED BY THE INTERFACE OF THE THERANOS DEVICE?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT WAS A GRAPHIC USER INTERFACE, AND THERE WERE CERTAIN BUTTONS THAT COULD BE PRESSED THAT WOULD INDICATE IF THE USER WANTED TO RUN A TEST OR NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND WOULD INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT GETTING THE BLOOD TEST BE ENTERED INTO THE USER INTERFACE, FOR EXAMPLE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MEDICAL HISTORY; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT COULD BE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND SOME INDIVIDUALS WOULD JUST WANT TO SEE HOW THAT INTERFACE WORKED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT IF YOU RAN THE DEVICE WITHOUT BLOOD IN IT, THE DEVICE WOULD AUTOMATICALLY SHUT DOWN; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. WELL, WAS THE -- WAS THERE A PROTOCOL THAT NORMALLY WAS IN PLACE ON THE DEVICE, REFERRED TO AS THE NORMANDY PROTOCOL?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT WAS ONE OF THE PROTOCOLS. AT ONE POINT THERE -- THE PROTOCOLS WERE CONTINUALLY DEVELOPED, AND AT ONE POINT THERE WAS THE DEMO PROTOCOL WHICH WE DISCUSSED, OR THE DEMO APP WHICH WE DISCUSSED YESTERDAY.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NORMANDY PROTOCOL FIRST AND THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE OTHER PROTOCOLS.

MR. DOWNEY: UNDER THE NORMANDY PROTOCOL, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU INSERTED A CARTRIDGE INTO A DEVICE BUT THERE WAS NO BLOOD SAMPLE IN IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IF YOU, IF YOU USED THE NULL PROTOCOL SOFTWARE, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU INSERTED A CARTRIDGE AND THERE WAS NO BLOOD SAMPLE IN IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE NULL PROTOCOL WOULD RUN, BUT --

MR. DOWNEY: BUT NO TEST WOULD BE PERFORMED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN SOME INSTANCES, I THINK WE DISCUSSED A MOMENT AGO, INDIVIDUALS WOULD COME AND THEY WOULDN'T WANT THEIR BLOOD DRAWN; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE NULL PROTOCOL COULD BE USED IN CONNECTION WITH THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME SHOW YOU IN THE GOVERNMENT'S BINDER AN EXHIBIT THAT WAS ADMITTED YESTERDAY, WHICH IS EXHIBIT 959.

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU GO TO WHERE THE EMAIL CHAIN STARTS ON THE SECOND PAGE, THIS APPEARS TO BE YOU SETTING UP -- DIRECTING THE SETUP OF EQUIPMENT BASED ON DIRECTIONS YOU HAD GOTTEN FROM EITHER MS. HOLMES OR MR. BALWANI; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU'RE ASKING THAT CERTAIN THERANOS DEVICES BE SET UP IN AN INTERVIEW ROOM; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THESE COMMUNICATIONS WERE IN CONNECTION WITH A, WITH A PLANNED DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL TOWARDS THE -- THE SECOND EMAIL, YOU'RE ASKING, SHOULD WE USE THE NORMANDY APP OR THE DEMO APP; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN IN THE NEXT -- AND THEN IN THE SECOND TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH, YOU SAY, "IF WE RUN THE NULL PROTOCOL, WE DON'T NEED THE CARTRIDGE TO BE AS TIGHT AS IT WAS LAST TIME IN THE CONTEXT OF INSERTING THE COLLECTION CONTAINERS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN DO YOU RECALL IN THE EMAIL CHAIN ABOVE MICHAEL CRAIG RECOMMENDED TO YOU THAT YOU USE THE DEMO APP; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NONE OF THIS CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT PLAYING A TRICK ON THE PEOPLE GETTING A DEMO, WAS IT?

MR. DOWNEY: THIS WAS -- THIS CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT THE VARIOUS THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN WHEN PEOPLE CAME TO GET A DEMONSTRATION AT THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SOMEONE MIGHT SHOW UP AND SAY, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE MY BLOOD DRAWN TODAY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SOMEBODY MIGHT SHOW UP AND SAY, I DO WANT TO HAVE MY BLOOD DRAWN; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT. IT WAS VERY IN THE MOMENT.

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT. AND SO YOU NEEDED TO BE PREPARED FOR ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WERE DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS DESIGNED FOR ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU WERE WORKING AS HARD AS YOU COULD TO DEMONSTRATE THE TECHNOLOGY IN THE MOST APPEALING WAY POSSIBLE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT YOU WERE NOT TRYING TO DECEIVE ANYBODY IN THIS DEMONSTRATION PROCESS, WERE YOU?

DANIEL EDLIN: OF COURSE NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ANYONE ELSE AT THERANOS WAS TRYING TO DECEIVE ANYONE ELSE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE TOP OF THIS EMAIL.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE'S A COMMUNICATION FROM DR. ANEKAL TO YOU. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE SAYS, IF WE BLOW UP THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THAT EMAIL, HE SAYS, "DAN, THE ASSAY TEAMS ARE PLANNING ON USING THE 3.5 DEVICES TOMORROW, BUT WE CAN MOVE ONE OF THE R&D UNITS IF IT'S JUST FOR SHOW-AND-TELL." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HIS REFERENCE TO SHOW-AND-TELL THERE IS A REFERENCE TO AN INSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE MIGHT JUST WANT TO SEE THE DEVICE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 7243.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL BETWEEN MS. HOLMES, YOURSELF, AND DR. YOUNG REGARDING SETTING UP A DEMONSTRATION IN JULY AND AUGUST OF 2012?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 7243.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 7243 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL AT THE VERY BOTTOM, DO YOU SEE THAT? MS. HOLMES ASKS DR. YOUNG, "DO WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINILABS THAT ARE FULLY ASSEMBLED WITH FUNCTIONAL SCREENS/ELECTRONICS THAT ARE EASY TO SHOW A CLIENT TOMORROW MIDDAY?" AND THEN IF YOU GO ABOVE THAT, DR. YOUNG SAYS, "YES, WE HAVE FULLY FUNCTIONAL MINILABS. I WILL MAKE SURE THE DISPLAY IS READY." AND THEN IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH OF THAT, HE ASKS, WHERE IT BEGINS, "ALSO, DO YOU WANT ANY TESTS RUN ON THE MACHINE, OR JUST HAVE IT POWERED UP WITH THE DISPLAY SHOWING SOMETHING INTERESTING?" OKAY. AND IF YOU GO -- DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT, MS. HOLMES RESPONDS, "WE CAN PUT THEM IN AN INTERVIEW ROOM." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE SAYS, "IF WE CAN EASILY HAVE THEM READY TO ACCEPT CARTRIDGES WE SHOULD. ALSO YES ON THE SCREEN... WE SHOULD NOT DO A LOT OF EXTRA WORK FOR THIS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO ABOVE THAT, DR. YOUNG SAYS -- I'M SORRY, TO THE EMAIL FROM DR. YOUNG, HE SAYS HE WILL GET IT SET UP IN THAT WAY, BUT HE SAYS, WE ARE NOT READY TO RUN WHOLE BLOOD SAMPLES IN THE MINILAB THAT HE'S SETTING UP; CORRECT? DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THE EMAIL FROM MS. HOLMES? SHE SAYS, "WE'RE NOT RUNNING SAMPLES - JUST DEMONSTRATING THE HARDWARE." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, I TAKE IT THAT YOU HAD A GENERAL SENSE OF WHAT THE ENGINEERING WAS RELATED TO -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. YOU'RE NOT AN ENGINEER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU'RE NOT INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH ALL OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SOFTWARE IN CONNECTION WITH THESE PROTOCOLS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS DONE BY MICHAEL CRAIG AND HIS TEAM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE IF HE LED THE TEAM, BUT I KNOW HE WAS ON THE TEAM.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. NOW, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE SCENARIO WHERE PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GET A BLOOD TEST, BUT THERE WERE TIMES WHEN PEOPLE CAME IN AND SAID, I DO WANT TO GET A BLOOD TEST; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT YOU REFERRED, WHEN YOU WERE TESTIFYING ON DIRECT YESTERDAY, TO TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS WHEN SOMEONE WANTED TO GET THEIR BLOOD TESTED; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THERE WERE MULTIPLE SCENARIOS.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. WELL, ONE WAS THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY TEST THE SAMPLE ON THE DEVICE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS DONE IN MANY INSTANCES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE OTHER WAS TO TEST THE SAMPLE IN THE THERANOS LABORATORY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT, BY THE WAY, WAS NOT THE CLINICAL LABORATORY, WAS IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT IT WAS DONE FOR PURPOSES OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: WHEN I WOULD HAND, WHEN I WOULD HAND OFF SAMPLES TO SCIENTISTS, IT WAS NOT IN THE CLINICAL LAB.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. NOW, YOU TALKED AT SOME LENGTH YESTERDAY ABOUT AN AUGUST 2013 DEMONSTRATION THAT WAS PERFORMED FOR WALGREENS EXECUTIVES. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS SHORTLY BEFORE THE LAUNCH OF RETAIL SERVICES AT WALGREENS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN CONNECTION WITH THIS DEMONSTRATION, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF EXECUTIVES MEETING WITH MS. HOLMES AND MR. BALWANI; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND A DEMONSTRATION WAS GOING TO BE PERFORMED FOR THEM; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WERE INVOLVED IN HELPING TO SET UP AND PREPARE THAT DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME SHOW YOU AGAIN 959. IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE SECOND -- AT THE EMAIL ON PAGE 2, LOOK AT THE FIRST PARAGRAPH AGAIN. YOU'RE DIRECTING THE EQUIPMENT THAT YOU WERE REQUESTING BE PUT IN THE INTERVIEW RAN. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN YOU DIRECT WHAT KIND OF PROTOCOLS ARE GOING TO BE RUN ON EACH DEVICE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU ALSO SAY IN THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH, "MOST LIKELY WE WILL COLLECT A NUMBER OF SAMPLES AND STORE THEM IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER LIKE THE LAST MEETING WE HAD, AND THEN PROCESS THEM SEPARATELY IN THE LAB." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S REFERRING TO A PRIOR DEMONSTRATION THAT YOU DID WHERE BLOOD SAMPLES WERE COLLECTED AT A MEETING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE SAMPLES, WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN, WERE PLACED IN THE TINY LITTLE NANOTAINER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE NANOTAINER WAS PLACED IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER BOX; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE BOX WAS TAKEN AND TAKEN TO THE LAB AND TESTING WAS PERFORMED THERE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AGAIN, THAT WAS NOT DONE TO DECEIVE ANYONE, WAS IT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU KNEW AT THE STAGE THAT THIS MEETING WAS TAKING PLACE THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THERANOS AND WALGREENS HAD CHANGED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONCEPTION OF DEPLOYING DEVICES IN STORES; CORRECT? LET ME ALTER THAT. DID YOU -- YOU KNEW THAT WHEN TESTS WERE TO BE DONE AT WALGREENS STORES, THEY WOULD NOT BE PERFORMED ON SITE AT THE WALGREENS STORES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: INSTEAD WHEN A TEST WAS DONE AT A WALGREENS STORE, THE BLOOD WOULD BE TAKEN INTO THE NANOTAINER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: PLACED INTO A CARTRIDGE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: PLACED INTO A --

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M SORRY. IT WAS PLACED INTO A SHIPPING CONTAINER.

MR. DOWNEY: SORRY, PLACED INTO A NANOTAINER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE NANOTAINER WAS PLACED IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHIPPED TO THERANOS'S CENTRAL LAB; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO WATCHING THIS DEMONSTRATION IN AUGUST OF 2013 IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM AT THERANOS WOULD MIMIC THE PROCESS THAT WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN AT WALGREENS IN A FEW WEEKS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES, WITHOUT THE ASSOCIATED SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS THAT WERE IN THE WALGREENS STORES. BUT FROM THE COLLECTION PROCESS --

DANIEL EDLIN: -- AND GETTING THAT SAMPLE TO THE LAB, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU WATCHED THAT PROCESS, YOU COULD SEE EXACTLY HOW IT WAS GOING TO WORK FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A PATIENT AT WALGREENS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. NOW, DURING THE DEMONSTRATION, DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING WITH MR. BOSTIC THAT YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO ACTUALLY BROUGHT THE SAMPLES BACK TO THE LAB; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL HOW MANY OF THE EXECUTIVES ACTUALLY GAVE A BLOOD SAMPLE AT THAT MEETING?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT WAS FIVE OR SIX.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DID YOU ACTUALLY DRAW THEIR BLOOD?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I THINK THERE WERE PHLEBOTOMISTS WHO DID THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. ON SOME OCCASIONS, EVEN YOU WOULD DRAW THEIR BLOOD; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: ON EARLY OCCASIONS BEFORE PHLEBOTOMISTS TOOK OVER THAT ROLE FULL TIME.

MR. DOWNEY: EARLY IN YOUR TIME AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND BY THE WAY, THERANOS HAD BELIEVED THAT IT EVEN HAD SPECIAL PROCESSES FOR EXTRACTING BLOOD FROM THE FINGER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IT OBTAINED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IN CONNECTION WITH THAT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU HOLD A PATENT IN CONNECTION WITH THAT; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE STATUS OF THE PATENT IS, BUT I WAS LISTED, RIGHT, FOR THE GRIP TECHNIQUE FOR THE COLLECTION.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. I'D LIKE TO INFORM YOU IT'S BEEN GRANTED, SO CONGRATULATIONS.

DANIEL EDLIN: THANK YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: BUT I -- AND THAT WAS JUST ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE THERANOS THOUGHT IT WAS DEVELOPING INNOVATIVE METHODS ON ELEMENTS OF BLOOD COLLECTION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, I THINK YOU WERE SHOWN SOME EMAILS YESTERDAY BY MR. BOSTIC RELATING TO THE DISCUSSION OF THE RESULTS OF THAT DEMONSTRATION ON WALGREENS EXECUTIVES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 966, WHICH WAS SHOWED TO YOU BY MR. BOSTIC. AND DO YOU SEE THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM DR. YOUNG REPORTING ON WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THE RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE PUTS IN QUOTATIONS THAT HE CORRECTED THE ASSAY RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE REPORTS THAT THE RESULTS LOOK GOOD; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE GC RESULTS, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE INDICATED THAT THERE WERE SOME -- HE REMOVED THYROID RESULTS IN SOME INSTANCES WHERE HE THOUGHT THEY WEREN'T ACCURATE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE ALSO NOTED A FEW OUT OF RANGE RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE SPECULATED THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING WRONG RELATIVE TO SOME OF THE ASSAYS IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WERE RELIANT ON HIM TO TRANSMIT THESE RESULTS TO ANY EXECUTIVE AT WALGREENS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: IN THIS CASE, YES.

DANIEL EDLIN: AND IN OTHER CASES IF I WERE TO, OR IF THE LAB WERE TO SUBMIT THE RESULTS, WE RELIED ON DANIEL TO REVIEW AND APPROVE THE RESULTS.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND YOU NEVER RECALL AN INSTANCE WHERE YOU CONTRADICTED HIS JUDGMENT ON WHAT WAS AN APPROPRIATE RESULT IN A BLOOD TEST, DO YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE ATTACHMENT TO THIS EXHIBIT, WHICH I BELIEVE HAS BEEN REDACTED. BEFORE WE PUT IT UP, CAN WE JUST VERIFY THAT THERE'S A REDACTION. THE PATIENT NAME IN CONNECTION WITH THIS DEMONSTRATION HAS BEEN REDACTED. ORDINARILY I THINK IT APPEARS AT THE TOP. BUT DO YOU SEE THAT THE DATE OF THIS WAS AUGUST 13TH, 2013? DO YOU SEE THAT DOWN UNDER TEST DETAIL?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S THE DATE OF THIS WALGREENS DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE AT THE TOP THAT THIS IS REFERRED TO AS A TEST REPORT TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE UNDER PATIENT INFORMATION, ALL OF THOSE CATEGORIES DO NOT PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT'S --

MR. DOWNEY: -- DATE OF BIRTH, THEIR GENDER OR THEIR MEDICATIONS, ET CETERA; IS THAT CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT AT THERANOS PERFORMING A CLINICAL EVALUATION WHEN DOING THESE DEMONSTRATIONS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT. UNLESS THE LAB TEST WAS ORDERED BY A PHYSICIAN, ALL OF THE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE, I BELIEVE, LABELLED TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND A PATIENT COULD BRING THEIR OWN LAB TEST ORDER FORM, CORRECT, AND HAVE A DEMONSTRATION IF THEY WERE OTHERWISE TOURING THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IN THOSE CASES TESTS WERE ACTUALLY PROCESSED THROUGH THE CLINICAL LAB WITH THE ACTUAL PHYSICIAN ORDER.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO THEY WERE NOT --

DANIEL EDLIN: AND THE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION WAS SEPARATE FROM THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO THE TECHNOLOGY -- THE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE NEVER USED FOR CLINICAL EVALUATION OF THE PERSON RECEIVING IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY WERE LABELLED TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION SO THAT IT WOULD BE DISTINGUISHED FROM A CLINICAL VALUE OR SOMETHING THAT COULD BE USED FOR CLINICAL USE.

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT RIGHT ON THE TOP OF THE PAGE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, SOMETIMES PATIENTS WOULD -- SOMETIMES PERSONS GETTING THE DEMONSTRATION WOULD COMPARE IT TO THEIR RESULTS IN OTHER TESTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES NOT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A FEW OF THE EXAMPLES THAT MR. BOSTIC WENT THROUGH WITH YOU YESTERDAY AND ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 860. THIS IS ALREADY IN EVIDENCE. JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO LOOK THROUGH THAT. DO YOU RECALL THIS DISCUSSION OF A DEMONSTRATION THAT WAS PERFORMED IN NEW YORK IN 2013?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS IT THE CASE THAT INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE RECEIVING THIS DEMONSTRATION WERE CLINICAL LAB SCIENTISTS AT SLOAN KETTERING?

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY WERE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS. I'M NOT SURE OF THEIR EXACT TITLES.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. DO YOU KNOW THAT SOME OF THEM WERE CLINICAL LAB SPECIALISTS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL.

MR. DOWNEY: BUT, BUT IN ANY EVENT --

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY ALL WORKED IN -- THEY WERE ALL PART OF THE HOSPITAL, YEAH.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND THERANOS WAS DEMONSTRATING ITS TECHNOLOGY TO PEOPLE AT THAT HOSPITAL; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WASN'T ANY EFFORT, AGAIN, TO DECEIVE ANY OF THOSE PERSONNEL AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU SAW IN THE EMAIL EXCHANGE THAT'S CONTAINED IN EXHIBIT 860 THAT THERE WAS A DISCUSSION OF TWO SAMPLES BEING RUN; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU DON'T REMEMBER TODAY WHY THAT WAS DONE; IS THAT RIGHT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK THERE WAS INTEREST IN SEEING HOW THE SAMPLES -- THEM SEEING TEST RESULTS FROM NEW YORK AND IN PALO ALTO.

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO ONE OF THE SAMPLES WAS TESTED ON THE DEVICE IN NEW YORK; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ANOTHER WAS PACKAGED IN A CONTAINER AND TAKEN BACK TO PALO ALTO; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT TEST WAS RUN LATER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN YOU HAD THE ISSUE THAT THE RESULTS DID NOT AGREE WITH EACH OTHER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE THEN WAS A DIALOGUE BETWEEN MS. HOLMES, DR. YOUNG, AND YOU WERE AT LEAST COPIED ON SOME OF THOSE EMAILS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT PAGE 6 OF THE EXHIBIT. IF YOU GO TO THE TOP OF THIS EMAIL, YOU WILL SEE -- ON THE PRIOR PAGE -- YOU WILL SEE THAT THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM DR. YOUNG TO MS. HOLMES, MR. BALWANI, AND YOU ARE COPIED. DO YOU SEE THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK SUNNY IS COPIED HERE, BUT -- BASED ON WHAT I'M SEEING ON MY SCREEN.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT PAGE, I WANT TO FOCUS ON THE PARAGRAPH THAT BEGINS "FOR MUMPS IGG."

MR. DOWNEY: AND DR. YOUNG, TALKING ABOUT THE DISCREPANT RESULTS, SAYS, "I AM INCLINED TO BELIEVE THAT THE RUN IN PALO ALTO IS CORRECT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE GOES ON TO BELIEVE -- TO DETAIL ALL OF THE REASONS THAT HE THINKS THE PALO ALTO RUN IS BETTER THAN THE RUN THAT WAS DONE IN NEW YORK. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN IF YOU GO TO THE PRIOR PAGE, MS. HOLMES ASKS DR. YOUNG AT THE TOP OF THAT PAGE, "DANIEL - IS OUR READ THAT THE SECOND RUN IN PALO ALTO IS THE MOST ACCURATE FOR ALL THREE DISCREPANCIES?" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO SHE WAS ASKING HIM HIS VIEW AS TO WHICH RESULTS WERE THE RIGHT RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN IF YOU GO TO THE PAGE BEFORE THAT, DR. YOUNG SAYS, "YES, I TRUST THE SECOND RUN IN PALO ALTO." AND HE GOES ON TO EXPLAIN HIS REASON; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, BOTH OF THESE ANALYSES WERE RUN ON SMALL SAMPLES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND BOTH WERE RUN WITH THERANOS ASSAYS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND A JUDGMENT HAD TO BE MADE WHEN THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU WOULD HAVE DEFERRED TO DR. YOUNG AND HIS JUDGMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN THIS INSTANCE MS. HOLMES DEFERRED TO DR. YOUNG AND HIS JUDGMENT; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK SHE ASKED FOR HIS OPINION AND THEN OFFERED HER OPINION AS WELL.

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT. IF YOU CONTINUE TO SCROLL THROUGH, THERE'S FURTHER DISCUSSION?

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT? BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE, THE ULTIMATE DECISION IS TO REPORT THE PALO ALTO RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IN CONNECTION WITH DOING THAT DEMONSTRATION AT SLOAN KETTERING, YOU DON'T RECALL THAT THERE WAS ANY CONCERN THAT THE DEMONSTRATION WOULD LEAD TO INACCURATE RESULTS IN ADVANCE, DO YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERANOS WAS EAGER TO SHOWCASE ITS TECHNOLOGY AT SLOAN KETTERING, WASN'T IT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MS. HOLMES THOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO EXPAND FUTURE BUSINESS AND RELATIONSHIPS FOR THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: OBJECTION. FOUNDATION.

MR. DOWNEY: FAIR ENOUGH. I'LL WITHDRAW THAT.

JUDGE DAVILA: THE QUESTION IS WITHDRAWN.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. YOU DON'T SEE ANY SIGN OF HESITATION ON EITHER MS. HOLMES'S PART OR ANYONE ELSE IN CONDUCTING THIS DEMONSTRATION IN NEW YORK?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. YOU WERE ALSO ASKED YESTERDAY ABOUT A JULY 2013 DEMONSTRATION THAT WAS DONE FOR A WALGREENS EXECUTIVE. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK AT EXHIBIT 905. IF YOU GO -- DO YOU SEE THIS IS THE EMAIL EXCHANGE IN JULY OF 2013 ABOUT REPORTING THE RESULTS FROM THAT DEMONSTRATION?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO PAGE 4 AND YOU LOOK AT DR. YOUNG'S EMAIL, YOU SEE IN THE SECOND TO LAST PARAGRAPH THAT DR. YOUNG REPORTS THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOW GLUCOSE RESULT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE INDICATES THAT, YOU KNOW, THE RESULT FOR SOMEONE WHO IS FASTING PRIOR TO THE TEST IS LESS THAN 100; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: TYPICALLY? TO BE IN A NORMAL RANGE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN HE ASKS MS. HOLMES, "DO WE KNOW THE STATE OF THE PATIENT?" CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN SHE RESPONDS IN THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT, AND SHE SAYS -- IT'S TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. IF YOU COULD BLOW THAT UP. SHE SAYS, "I DON'T KNOW. IT'S 50/50. WE MIGHT FLAG IT." RIGHT?

MR. DOWNEY: "IT'S 50/50 WHETHER THEY WERE OR NOT. WE MIGHT FLAG IT AND SPECIFY THAT HIGH OR LOW REFERENCE RANGE DEPENDS ON WHETHER THE PATIENT WAS FASTING OR NOT." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO SHE WANTED TO CONVEY TO THE PATIENT THAT THE RESULT WAS UNCERTAIN; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: SHE WANTED TO INCLUDE THIS, THIS ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMER OR THIS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

MR. DOWNEY: BECAUSE IT WOULD HELP THE PATIENT IN THE EVENT THAT THEIR GLUCOSE WASN'T ORDINARILY LOW, THEY WOULDN'T BE ALARMED IF THEY HADN'T BEEN FASTING, FOR EXAMPLE?

DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT. IT PROVIDES INFORMATION AND CONTEXT.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 1014. THIS WAS ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE YESTERDAY. AND THIS RELATES TO THE DEMONSTRATION THAT WAS PERFORMED AT THERANOS FOR THE JOURNALIST JOE RAGO. DO YOU REMEMBER DISCUSSING THAT YESTERDAY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND I THINK YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT THIS DEMONSTRATION WAS PROCESSED IN THERANOS'S LABORATORY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND AGAIN, THIS PROCESS FOR THIS DEMONSTRATION WAS THAT THE BLOOD WAS COLLECTED FROM THE FINGER, PUT IN THE NANOTAINER, PUT IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER, AND TAKEN TO THE LAB; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 2, JUST TO REORIENT YOU, AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE, IF YOU WOULD BLOW THAT EMAIL UP. YOU SAY, "I'M HEADING IN TO COLLECT THE FINGERSTICK SAMPLE, PLEASE BE READY TO MEET IN THE LAB IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE SAMPLE BEING COLLECTED IN THE ROOM AND TAKEN TO THE LAB; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND, AGAIN, YOU DID NOT DO ANYTHING IN CONNECTION WITH THIS TO TRY TO DECEIVE MR. RAGO, DID YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU WERE NOT TRYING TO CONVEY ANYTHING FALSE ABOUT THERANOS, WERE YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU TOOK THE SAMPLE IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER INTO THE LAB FOR EVALUATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN MR. --

DANIEL EDLIN: I GAVE -- I GAVE IT TO SCIENTISTS WHO CONDUCTED THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. DOWNEY: YOU DIDN'T PERFORM THE TESTS YOURSELF?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN MR. -- LATER MR. RAGO WROTE AN ARTICLE ABOUT THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND I'D LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO EXHIBIT 1106, WHICH IS ALREADY IN EVIDENCE. AND I WANT TO BLOW UP A PARAGRAPH IN WHICH THE PROCESS FOR THIS -- FOR THERANOS IS DESCRIBED. DO YOU SEE IT'S THE BOTTOM PARAGRAPH? WE'LL BLOW IT UP FOR YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS IS MR. RAGO'S ARTICLE DISCUSSING THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE SAYS -- IT DESCRIBES HOW THERANOS'S TECHNICIANS GET THE CIRCULATION GOING IN THE HANDS SO THAT THERE'S MORE BLOOD CIRCULATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN HE DESCRIBES HOW THE BLOOD IS PLACED IN A NANOTAINER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN HE SAYS IT'S THEN RUN THROUGH ANALYZERS IN A THERANOS LAB; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROCESS THAT HE HAD GOTTEN WHEN HE VISITED THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT? AND THAT'S THE PROCESS THAT WAS BEING DEMONSTRATED WHEN YOU TOOK THE SAMPLE FROM THE ROOM INTO THE THERANOS LAB?

MR. DOWNEY: I'M GOING TO TURN TO JUST BRIEFLY TO ANOTHER TOPIC. AND THEN AFTER THIS, YOUR HONOR, IT MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME FOR A BREAK. DO YOU RECALL THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING A LOT OF DEMONSTRATIONS THAT TOOK PLACE PRIOR TO THE, PRIOR TO THE RETAIL LAUNCH AT WALGREENS; CORRECT? A NUMBER OF PRESENTATIONS AND A NUMBER OF DEMONSTRATIONS IN 2013?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU REMEMBER THAT AS THERANOS WAS WORKING ON ITS PARTNERSHIP WITH WALGREENS, IT ALSO APPLIED TO THE FDA FOR APPROVAL OF CERTAIN OF ITS TECHNOLOGIES?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHICH TIME THAT WAS DONE, BUT I -- YES, I'M AWARE THAT THE COMPANY DID APPLY FOR FDA APPROVAL FOR ITS TECHNOLOGIES.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND DO YOU RECALL THAT THE FDA DID APPROVE THERANOS'S TECHNOLOGY IN CONNECTION WITH TESTING FOR HSV-1?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 13988. IS THIS AN EMAIL THAT MS. HOLMES SENT IN JULY OF 2015 IN CONNECTION WITH --

(CELL PHONE GOING OFF.)

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE THAT EXHIBIT.

MR. DOWNEY: I APOLOGIZE, YOUR HONOR. WE'RE OVER TECHNIFIED.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME SHOW YOU --

DANIEL EDLIN: MY BINDER GOES TO 13983.

MR. DOWNEY: I'M SORRY. MAYBE I MISREAD THE NUMBER. MAYBE THAT'S THE PROBLEM. EXHIBIT 13988. I HAVE AN EXTRA COPY HERE.

MR. BOSTIC: I DON'T HAVE A COPY OF THAT EITHER, COUNSEL.

MR. DOWNEY: (HANDING.)

JUDGE DAVILA: IT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO MY BINDER EITHER, SO --

MR. DOWNEY: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR?

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: (HANDING.)

DANIEL EDLIN: THANK YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: SHOWING YOU EXHIBIT 13988, IS THIS AN EMAIL FROM MS. HOLMES TO ALL THERANOS EMPLOYEES IN JULY OF 2015?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 13988.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13988 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. DOWNEY: JUST BLOW UP THE EMAIL AT THE TOP.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH, IT INDICATES -- MS. HOLMES IS INDICATING THAT THERANOS HAD RECEIVED IT'S FIRST FDA CLEARANCE ON OUR SYSTEM AND THE FIRST LABORATORY DEVELOPED TEST WE FILED: HSV-1. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU YOURSELF DID NOT DEAL WITH THE FDA DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR DUTIES AT THERANOS, DID YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS FDA APPROVAL WAS AN APPROVAL FOR RUNNING THE HSV-1 ASSAY ON THERANOS SYSTEMS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME FOR A BREAK.

JUDGE DAVILA: LET'S TAKE OUR BREAK NOW, MR. DOWNEY. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'LL TAKE A 30 MINUTE BREAK, A 30 MINUTE BREAK, PLEASE. AND WE'LL SEE YOU BACK IN JUST A MOMENT. THANK YOU. YOU CAN STAND DOWN AS WELL, SIR. THANK YOU.

(JURY OUT AT 10:55 A.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. THANK YOU. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS LEFT, AND MR. EDLIN IS LEAVING THE COURTROOM. HE'S GONE NOW. THANK YOU. MR. DOWNEY, DURING YOUR EXAMINATION OF MR. EDLIN, THE COURT DID HEAR A DEVICE THAT WENT OFF IN THE AUDIENCE, AND I FOUND IT DISRUPTIVE. I LOOKED OUT AT THE AUDIENCE AND I SAW THE GENTLEMAN IN THE BLUE SHIRT SEATED IN THE BACK ROW FUMBLING WITH HIS DEVICE AND TRYING TO TURN IT DOWN. I JUST HAVE TO SAY THIS IS THE SECOND TIME THAT IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, SIR, THAT YOUR DEVICE HAS DISRUPTED THESE PROCEEDINGS. IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN, SIR, YOU'LL HAVE TO GO DOWN TO THE OTHER ROOM AND WATCH THIS, SHOULD YOU CARE TO WATCH IT. OTHERWISE I'LL ASK YOU TO LEAVE YOUR DEVICE WITH THE UNITED STATES MARSHALS DOWNSTAIRS IF YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY IN THAT REGARD. IF YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY OPERATING YOUR MACHINE, I'LL CALL THE MARSHAL UP NOW IF YOU WANT TO STAY HERE, AND PERHAPS HE CAN HELP YOU DISABLE THAT DEVICE. THEY'RE VERY GOOD AT THAT. SO I WOULD ASK YOU, SIR, TO PLEASE -- AND EVERYONE -- SIR, I'M CALLING YOU OUT BECAUSE I HEARD IT AND SAW YOU. BUT EVERYONE ELSE, PLEASE DO RESPECT THESE PROCEEDINGS AND DISABLE YOUR DEVICES. IT'S DISRUPTIVE TO THE PROCEEDINGS. IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE GOVERNMENT. IT'S NOT FAIR TO MS. HOLMES TO HAVE WITNESSES AND THE JURY BE DISTRACTED BY THAT. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYTHING FURTHER, COUNSEL --

MR. BOSTIC: NO, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: -- BEFORE WE BREAK?

MR. DOWNEY: NOTHING ON OUR SIDE.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

COURT CLERK: COURT IS IN RECESS.

(RECESS FROM 10:57 A.M. UNTIL 11:34 A.M.)

Procedural 1Proc. 1Customer Feedback Reports Admissibility Hearing

(JURY OUT AT 11:34 A.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD. ALL PARTIES PREVIOUSLY PRESENT ARE PRESENT ONCE AGAIN. WE'RE OUTSIDE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY. COUNSEL, DID YOU WANT TO DISCUSS SOMETHING?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, IT'S MY INTENTION TO INTRODUCE SOME EXHIBITS DURING MR. EDLIN'S EXAMINATION WHICH WON'T TAKE LONG, BUT WHICH ARE FAIRLY BULKY. THEY ARE THE, THEY ARE THE WEEKLY OR BIWEEKLY REPORTS OF CUSTOMER FEEDBACK THAT MR. EDLIN AND MS. HOLMES RECEIVED IN AGGREGATED FORM. AS I UNDERSTAND, MR. BOSTIC HAS AN ISSUE WITH IT. I DON'T THINK I'M GOING TO GIVE YOUR HONOR THE -- WHAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE. I THINK THE EVIDENTIARY ISSUE IS THE SAME FOR EVERY DOCUMENT, SO IT'S JUST ESSENTIALLY A REPEAT. I WAS ACTUALLY HOPEFUL THAT WE MIGHT GET A STIPULATION.

JUDGE DAVILA: MR. BOSTIC?

MR. BOSTIC: I HAVE A FEW CONCERNS ABOUT THIS CATEGORY OF EVIDENCE. I UNDERSTAND A COPY HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THE COURT. FROM MY BRIEF REVIEW, AND I RECEIVED THIS TODAY, THIS APPEARS TO BE A COLLECTION OF ANECDOTAL REPORTS OF CUSTOMER FEEDBACK FROM WALGREENS. EVERY ONE THAT I'VE SEEN SO FAR IS POSITIVE AS TO THERANOS. I'M NOT SURE -- FIRST, WITHOUT THE WITNESS ON THE STAND, I'M NOT SURE WHAT KIND OF FOUNDATION COULD BE LAID FOR THE ADMISSION OF THESE ACCOUNTS FOR THEIR TRUTH. I THINK IT'S ONE THING IF THE WITNESS IS ABLE TO LAY A FOUNDATION FOR AN EMAIL, YOU KNOW, THAT HE WAS ON, BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT THING TO BE ABLE TO LAY A PROPER FOUNDATION SUCH THAT THESE ACCOUNTS -- AND THEY'RE VERY HIGH IN VOLUME -- SUCH THAT THESE ACCOUNTS CAN BE ADMITTED FOR THE TRUTH OF THE CONTENT OF THESE PATIENT ACCOUNTS. IT'S UNCLEAR FROM THE FACE OF THE DOCUMENTS WHO COLLECTED THEM, HOW THEY WERE COMPILED, WHETHER THEY WERE CURATED IN ANY WAY, WHETHER THIS IS A SELECTION OR A COMPLETE LIST, AND SO I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT AND SOME CONCERNS. SEPARATELY, I CONTINUE TO BE CONCERNED, AND THIS IS INCREASING MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE JURY BEING PRESENTED WITH AN UNBALANCED VIEW OF WHAT CUSTOMER AND PATIENT FEEDBACK ABOUT THERANOS WAS. I THINK ADMITTING THE HIGH VOLUME OF POSITIVE CUSTOMER SURVEY RESULTS OR FEEDBACK, ANECDOTES LIKE THIS, WITHOUT ALLOWING THE JURY TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE COMPLAINT LOGS THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER DAY, RISKS GIVING THEM THE WRONG IMPRESSION. AND SO, AGAIN, IF THIS DOES END UP COMING INTO EVIDENCE, IT SHOULD REOPEN THE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER COMPLAINT LOGS NEED TO BE PRESENTED TO THE JURY.

JUDGE DAVILA: THOSE COMPLAINT LOGS WERE FROM -- WERE THOSE FROM WALGREENS ALSO?

MR. BOSTIC: SO, YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE COME IN DIRECTLY TO THERANOS. IT'S NOT CLEAR WHETHER WALGREENS STAFF OR THERANOS STAFF COLLECTED THE ACCOUNTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THIS BINDER.

MR. DOWNEY: I THINK I CAN SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT, YOUR HONOR.

MR. DOWNEY: THIS IS -- FIRST OF ALL, I'M NOT OFFERING THE REPORTS FOR THE PURPOSES OF THEIR TRUTH. THESE ARE WEEKLY REPORTS WHICH WENT TO THE DEFENDANT AND THE EFFECT OF HER STATE OF MIND ABOUT THERANOS SERVICES. BUT THESE ARE WEEKLY REPORTS THAT ARE COMPILED FROM TWO SOURCES. ONE IS THAT THERE'S A THERANOS APP THAT ALLOWS CUSTOMERS TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK IN WRITING, AND I THINK MR. BOSTIC HAS ALREADY EFFECTIVELY ESTABLISHED THAT MUCH OF THAT FEEDBACK IS GIVEN IN ADVANCE OF THE -- OF KNOWING TEST RESULTS, AT LEAST FOR PATIENTS WHO ARE FIRST-TIME USERS. THE OTHER SOURCE OF IT IS THAT PHLEBOTOMISTS IN THE STORES ENGAGED WITH PATIENTS AND THEY ASKED THEM WHAT THEIR EXPERIENCE WAS ON THIS VISIT, ON PRIOR VISITS, WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THEIR CHOOSING THERANOS WAS, ET CETERA, AND THIS WAS COMPILED AND SHARED WITH MR. EDLIN AND MS. HOLMES, ET CETERA. I THINK IT'S, IT'S -- YOU KNOW, HE'S CERTAINLY FREE TO CROSS-EXAMINE AS TO WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, LIMITED BY, YOU KNOW, SOME EFFORT TO FIND POSITIVE FEEDBACK, ET CETERA. BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S INADMISSIBLE WHEN IT'S A DISCUSSION OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS AT THE HEART OF THE CASE, WHICH IS THE QUALITY OF THE BLOOD TESTING SERVICES PROVIDED BY THERANOS.

JUDGE DAVILA: WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS MIGHT BE A -- IS THIS A REVIEW OF THE PHLEBOTOMISTS THEMSELVES AS OPPOSED TO JUST THE TECHNOLOGY? IS THAT THE CUSTOMER SATISFACTION? HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE? WERE THE ROOMS WELL LIT? WAS THE CARPET CLEAN? WAS THE SEATING COMFORTABLE?

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, I THINK THERE'S SOME OF THAT, AND THERE'S AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION OF THE PRICE, AND THERE'S ALSO DISCUSSION OF THE RELATIVE COMFORT OF THE THERANOS METHOD OF DRAW DEMONSTRATES THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH THE FINGERSTICK METHOD WAS ACTUALLY USED IN THE STORES.

JUDGE DAVILA: SO I THINK WHAT IS RELEVANT, ISN'T IT, IS THE TECHNOLOGY ITSELF. DO THESE TALK ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY OR THE EXPERIENCE? AND ARE THOSE SEVERABLE?

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, YOUR HONOR, SOME OF THESE ANECDOTES ARE FROM PATIENTS WHO HAVE USED THERANOS SERVICES AND THERANOS TECHNOLOGY OVER A PERIOD OF, YOU KNOW, FROM THE TIME OF THE LAUNCH UNTIL, YOU KNOW, THE TIME THE BLOOD TESTING SERVICES WERE CEASED. I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO NECESSARILY ASK IF IT'S ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY. I DON'T THINK THE WITNESSES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS OFFERED, YOU KNOW, THE PATIENT THAT THE GOVERNMENT OFFERED WAS COMMENTING ON THE TECHNOLOGY.

MR. BOSTIC: SO, YOUR HONOR --

JUDGE DAVILA: WHAT ABOUT 5439? 5439?

MR. DOWNEY: I THINK THERE WAS A FAILURE TO ESTABLISH A FOUNDATION THAT ANY OF THAT INFORMATION WAS COMMUNICATED TO MS. HOLMES OR THAT IT WAS A BUSINESS RECORD. I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT THAT THERE SHOULD BE PARITY HERE, BUT I THINK THE QUESTION IS NOT PARITY BETWEEN THE SIDES AS LAWYERS LITIGATING. THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE DEFENDANT'S STATE OF MIND AT THE TIME?

MR. BOSTIC: SO, YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT'S TRUE IF NONE OF THIS COMES IN FOR ITS TRUTH. THE CONCERNS ABOUT PARITY AND PRESENTING A DISTORTED IMAGE TO THE JURY ARE AT LEAST PARTLY ADDRESSED IF THERE'S AN INSTRUCTION THAT NONE OF THESE ACCOUNTS ARE COMING IN FOR THE TRUTH. BUT THAT DOESN'T ADDRESS AT ALL THE RELEVANCE CONCERNS THAT THE COURT JUST RAISED, AND I THINK THE COURT IS RIGHT TO HIT ON THAT. AT ISSUE IN THIS CASE IS NOT THE QUALITY OF THERANOS'S SERVICES AT LARGE, WHETHER PATIENTS WERE HAPPY WITH THEIR EXPERIENCE AT WALGREENS, WHETHER THE PHLEBOTOMIST WAS KIND TO THEM, WHETHER THE PRICE WAS LOW, THESE THINGS AREN'T NECESSARILY IN DISPUTE IN THE CASE. WHAT IS IN DISPUTE IS THE ACCURACY OF THE TESTS AND THE QUALITY OF THE RESULTS. BASED ON MY READ OF THESE ANECDOTES, THEY APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN GIVEN BY CUSTOMERS PROBABLY BEFORE THEY EVEN RECEIVED THEIR RESULTS. TESTIMONY FROM DR. ROSENDORFF SHOWS THAT IT'S UNCLEAR, OR IT CAN BE UNCLEAR WHETHER A GIVEN LAB RESULT WAS ACCURATE OR INACCURATE EVEN AFTER IT'S RECEIVED. SO I JUST SEE THIS AS BEING TOO FAR AFIELD FROM THE ACTUAL ISSUE IN THE CASE WHICH WAS, WERE THE TEST RESULTS ACCURATE? THIS HAS TO DO MORE WITH THE EXPERIENCE OF PATIENTS AND WHETHER THEY HAD A PLEASANT TIME AT THERANOS, AND I THINK THAT RAISES 401 AND 403 CONCERNS.

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, LET ME JUST --

JUDGE DAVILA: THAT'S MY CONCERN, MR. DOWNEY. I'M SORRY.

MR. DOWNEY: YES. LET ME JUST COMMENT ON THE CHARACTERIZATION OF THE DOCUMENTS. YOUR HONOR MAY RECALL THAT IN OPENING STATEMENT, MR. WADE SHOWED AN EXCERPT OF ONE OF THESE DOCUMENTS IN WHICH A STANFORD PHYSICIAN IS COMMENTING ON THE SERVICES OF THERANOS, AND HE COMMENTS ON A COMPARISON BETWEEN OTHER BLOOD TESTING SERVICES THAT HE'S RECEIVED AND THERANOS'S BLOOD TESTING SERVICES IN LIGHT OF THE ACCURACY OF THE TESTS AND THE RELATIVE COSTS.

JUDGE DAVILA: WELL, THAT'S A WHOLE SEPARATE -- IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING IN OPENING STATEMENTS THAT COUNSEL WILL PUT THINGS IN THAT HAVEN'T YET BEEN INTRODUCED INTO EVIDENCE, SO --

MR. DOWNEY: NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND. I'M JUST RESPONDING TO MR. BOSTIC --

MR. DOWNEY: -- WHO IS SAYING THE FEEDBACK HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH --

JUDGE DAVILA: SO THE ISSUE I HAVE, THE CONCERN I HAVE IS THE MESSAGE FROM THE SURVEYS. IS IT A PLEASANT EXPERIENCE BECAUSE PARKING WAS GOOD, BECAUSE THE STORE WAS WELL LIT, BECAUSE THEY WERE GREETED, THAT TYPE OF AN EXPERIENCE. AND HOW DO YOU, CAN YOU, DO THEY SEPARATE THAT FROM THERANOS AND THE TECHNOLOGY AND HOW IT -- HOW SATISFIED THEY ARE WITH THE TESTING RESULTS. IF THEY SAY, YEAH, THE FINGER TEST WAS TERRIFIC AND I REALLY ENJOYED THAT EXPERIENCE, WHATEVER IT IS. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PARSE THAT OUT. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THESE. BUT THAT'S MY CONCERN IS THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE SURVEYS FOR WALGREENS AS OPPOSED TO THERANOS. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DO THAT. I DON'T KNOW.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, YOUR HONOR, THE PHLEBOTOMISTS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS THERANOS EMPLOYEES. WALGREENS IS FUNCTIONING AS A PARTNER, BUT A LOCATION AND PROVIDING COROLLARY SERVICES. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT TO SAY IT'S AN EXPERIENCE ABOUT WALGREENS. IF ANYTHING, THIS ISN'T REALLY RELEVANT, BUT I THINK IF YOU REVIEWED IT, A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS ARE ABOUT SORT OF THE ADJACENT WALGREENS SERVICES AND SO FORTH.

MR. DOWNEY: BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE OF THESE SERVICES, YOU KNOW, IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE DEFENDANT'S STATE OF MIND AS TO, YOU KNOW, HOW THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING OFFERED IS BEING RECEIVED BY THE PUBLIC. I MEAN --

JUDGE DAVILA: SO THIS IS BEING -- I'M SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF. THESE ARE BEING OFFERED, THE RELEVANCE OF THEM IS STATE OF MIND.

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S RIGHT.

JUDGE DAVILA: YOUR CLIENT'S STATE OF MIND.

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S CORRECT, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: BECAUSE SHE RECEIVED, AND MR. EDLIN RECEIVED THESE ON A WEEKLY BASIS AND THEY AFFECT HER STATE OF MIND IN WHICH MANNER?

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S CORRECT.

JUDGE DAVILA: THAT WAS A QUESTION.

MR. DOWNEY: NO, THAT IS -- THAT IS THE REASON THAT THEY'RE BEING OFFERED. CERTAINLY THE POINTS THAT MR. BOSTIC MAKES, YOU KNOW, ARE, ARE A FRUITFUL BASIS FOR HIS EXAMINATION ON REDIRECT THAT, YOU KNOW --

JUDGE DAVILA: THAT WAS A QUESTION. I WAS BEING LITERAL. THAT WAS A QUESTION. WHAT IS THE STATE OF MIND THAT IT AFFECTS? I DON'T CAPTURE.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, CERTAINLY WHEN PATIENTS ARE RETURNING TO THERANOS OVER A PERIOD OF MANY YEARS AND DELIVERING POSITIVE REVIEWS, AND THERE ARE INDICATIONS OF THAT TO THE DEFENDANT, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT AN INDICATION OF KNOWLEDGE OF INACCURACY OR UNRELIABILITY IN THE BLOOD TESTING SERVICE THAT IS BEING OFFERED, IF THAT'S RESPONSIVE TO YOUR HONOR'S QUESTION.

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, THE POINT IS THAT THIS DOESN'T SPEAK ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO THE ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY OF THESE TESTS, AND THAT'S WHAT AT ISSUE IN THE CASE AND THAT'S WHAT IS ALLEGED IN THE INDICTMENT. I OPENED TO A RANDOM PAGE -- AGAIN, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW EVERYTHING HERE -- BUT MR. DOWNEY'S EXAMPLE OF THE ACCOUNT THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN THE OPENING WHERE THE DOCTOR COMPARED THE THERANOS TEST RESULTS TO A THIRD PARTY RESULT WITH AN IMPLICATION ABOUT ACCURACY, THAT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE BULK OF THESE ACCOUNTS. HERE'S ONE THAT TALKS ABOUT A FIRST-TIME GUEST WHO SAID THAT HER DOCTOR RECOMMEND THAT SHE COME HERE SINCE SHE HAS A HIGH DEDUCTIBLE FOR INSURANCE, SHE THOUGHT IT WAS CONVENIENT AND CAME HERE TO HAVE BLOOD WORK AND GET MEDICATION IF SHE NEEDS TO, THIS LOCATION IS TWO MINUTES AWAY FROM HER HOME, WHICH SHE LOVED. THERE'S A LOT OF POSITIVE FEEDBACK ABOUT THE PRICES AND THE CONVENIENCE. THOSE AREN'T ISSUES IN THE CASE, AND THE EFFECT THAT THEY HAD ON MS. HOLMES'S MENTAL STATE ON THOSE TOPICS IS NOT RELEVANT HERE. BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUCH LOW PROBATIVE VALUE, IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THAT PROBATIVE VALUE TO BE GREATLY OUTWEIGHED BY THE PREJUDICIAL VALUE OF HAVING A LARGE WEIGHT OF POSITIVE CUSTOMER REVIEWS OF THERANOS RESULTS WITHOUT THE JURY BEING ABLE TO SEE THE COMPLAINT RECORDS.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, RECALL ALSO, YOUR HONOR, THE TECHNOLOGY IS AN ISSUE IN THE CASE. BUT REMEMBER THAT MR. JHAVERI TESTIFIED, IN ESSENCE, AND I'M PARAPHRASING, BUT THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH WALGREENS WAS UNSUCCESSFUL FROM A CONSUMER EXPERIENCE PERSPECTIVE AND THAT, THEREFORE, IT WAS KNOWN OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO THE DEFENDANT THAT THAT RELATIONSHIP WAS NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXPAND TOWARDS A NATIONAL ROLLOUT. CERTAINLY CONTEMPORANEOUS FEEDBACK FROM HUNDREDS OF PATIENTS WHO ARE USING THE SERVICES AT THE VERY TIME THERE'S NO COMMUNICATION TO THE DEFENDANT BY MR. JHAVERI OF THOSE CONCERNS IS RELEVANT TO THAT ISSUE IF NOT TO MEDICAL ISSUES IN THE CASE.

MR. BOSTIC: AND, YOUR HONOR, I UNDERSTAND THOSE CONCERNS FOCUSSED ON THE NUMBER OF VENOUS DRAWS THAT THERANOS WAS NEEDING TO DO, THAT'S RELEVANT TO THE CAPABILITY OF THE TECHNOLOGY, I DON'T SEE THAT TOPIC ADDRESSED IN ANY KIND OF RIGOROUS WAY.

JUDGE DAVILA: I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THEM. I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO. BUT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT GENERAL PLEASANT EXPERIENCE, MR. BOSTIC POINTED ONE OUT, IT WAS CLOSE TO MY HOME. THAT'S NOT RELEVANT. THE GEOGRAPHY OF SOMEONE'S RESIDENCE VIS-A-VIS THEIR VISITING A STORE ISN'T RELEVANT AT ANY POINT IN THE CASE OTHER THAN THEIR PLEASANT EXPERIENCE. BUT -- SO I THINK THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WOULD HAVE TO BE PARSED OUT. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN DO THAT TODAY OR NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: NO, I DON'T THINK I CAN, YOUR HONOR. WOULD IT BE ALL RIGHT IF I JUST AUTHENTICATED THE DOCUMENTS WITH THIS WITNESS, AND THEN IF THERE'S A HEARSAY OR RELEVANCE ISSUE, YOU KNOW, AND YOUR HONOR DECIDES NOT TO ADMIT THEM, BUT I'LL DO IT WITH A REQUEST TO ADMIT AND I THINK --

JUDGE DAVILA: SURE. YOU CAN ASK HIM -- I THINK IT'S FAIR TO ASK HIM WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE A CHAIN OF CUSTOMER SURVEYS --

JUDGE DAVILA: -- THAT CUSTOMERS, NOT ALL, BUT SOME PARTICIPATED IN AND WHAT THAT WAS. BUT I'M NOT LIKELY TO INTRODUCE THIS BINDER RIGHT NOW WITHOUT HAVING IT PARSED THROUGH TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY OF THE INFORMATION. LIKE MR. BOSTIC POINTED OUT, I DON'T THINK THAT'S RELEVANT. I THINK YOU WOULD PROBABLY AGREE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO STATE IT --

MR. DOWNEY: I DON'T, BUT I UNDERSTAND.

JUDGE DAVILA: RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. LET'S DO THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: SO I'LL ASK HIM IF THESE ARE AUTHENTIC COPIES OF THAT.

JUDGE DAVILA: SURE. THAT'S FINE. DID OUR CSO LEAVE? CAN WE GET HIM BACK? LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BEFORE WE CALL THE JURY IN, THIS RELATES BACK TO THE NOISE IN THE COURTROOM. MS. KRATZMANN HAS POINTED OUT TO ME THAT JURORS CONTINUE TO HEAR KEYBOARDS AND IT'S DISTRACTING TO THEM. THIS IS PRIMARILY OUR JURORS WHO ARE SEATED IN THE -- NOT IN THE WELL SECTION, BUT IN THE SEATS IN THE AUDIENCE. WE DO HAVE A ROW BEHIND THEM THAT IS NOT SEATED, BUT THEY HAVE, THE JURORS HAVE REPORTED THAT THEY CONTINUE TO HEAR KEYBOARDS. AND JUST TO BE FRANK AND CANDID AND TRANSPARENT, THE NOISE THAT THEY HEAR IS COMING FROM MY LEFT SIDE OF THE COURTROOM. THEY HAVE HEARD THAT. I'M CALLING A CSO IN, A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MARSHAL'S OFFICE, AND I'VE ASKED THEM TO MONITOR AND SEE IF THEY HEAR ANY OF THIS NOISE. IT WAS DISTRACTING TO MR. DOWNEY'S EXAMINATION, AND THAT'S NOT FAIR TO MS. HOLMES TO HAVE THAT TYPE OF DISTRACTION. IT CAN IMPAIR HER RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL.

IF A JUROR IS NOT LISTENING OR IS DISTRACTED AT A KEY MOMENT WHEN A CRITICAL PIECE OF EVIDENCE IS COMING IN, EXAMINATION IS COMING IN, THAT IS NOT FAIR. AND I INTEND TO HOLD A FAIR TRIAL FOR THE DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE. IF, IF I AM INFORMED THAT A KEYBOARD OR OTHER NOISE IS INTERFERING WITH THAT FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, I'LL PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE TO WHOEVER THAT IS USING THEIR KEYBOARD. AND WE DO HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE. YOU CAN -- I'M NOT GOING TO BANISH YOU FROM THE COURTHOUSE, YOU CAN STILL CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS TRIAL THROUGH OUR OVERFLOW ROOM WHERE WE HAVE A SCREEN, THERE'S NO JURY PRESENT, AND YOU CAN WATCH AND OBTAIN THE SAME EXPERIENCE THERE.

AND IT MAY BE THAT IF I HEAR ANY REPORTS THAT THE KEYBOARD'S THERE, I'LL ASK OUR MARSHAL TO ESCORT THAT PERSON DOWN SUCH THAT THEIR ABILITY TO CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE AS AN OBSERVER IN THIS PUBLIC PROCEEDING IS NOT INTERRUPTED, BUT THEY DO IT IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE DEFENDANT'S SIXTH AMENDMENT RIGHT TO A TRIAL AND THE GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO PROSECUTE THE CASE ACCORDINGLY. SO I'VE ASKED AN OFFICIAL OF THE MARSHAL'S OFFICE TO BE PRESENT. I'VE GIVEN THAT MARSHAL INSTRUCTIONS THAT IF THERE'S ANY DISTURBANCE, HE CAN TAKE ACTION ACCORDINGLY. SO I JUST WANT TO LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT, AND I APOLOGIZE TO COUNSEL FOR THAT DISRUPTION IN YOUR CASE. THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN IN A COURTROOM, PARTICULARLY IN ANY CRIMINAL CASE THAT IS IMPORTANT TO -- THAT HAS LIBERTY RISKS, AND IT HAS ISSUES THAT THE GOVERNMENT WISHES TO PRESENT IN THEIR PROSECUTION. SO THANK YOU. ANY -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY COMMENT, MR. BOSTIC?

MR. BOSTIC: NO, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: THANK YOU.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL PROCEED ACCORDINGLY THEN, MR. DOWNEY. SHOULD WE BRING THE JURY IN THEN?

COURT CLERK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

(JURY IN AT 11:54 A.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD. ALL COUNSEL ARE PRESENT. MS. HOLMES IS PRESENT. THE WITNESS IS ON THE STAND. MR. DOWNEY, YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE?

MR. DOWNEY: YES, SIR.

MR. DOWNEY: MR. EDLIN, DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY DISCUSSING WITH MR. BOSTIC THE SUBJECT OF COMPILING SLIDE DECKS FOR PRESENTATIONS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES THOSE PRESENTATION WERE SHARED WITH INVESTORS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEY WERE SHARED WITH STRATEGIC PARTNERS OF THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEY MIGHT BE SHARED WITH THE PRESS, FOR EXAMPLE?

DANIEL EDLIN: WITH THE PRESS?

MR. DOWNEY: YEAH, WITH JOURNALISTS WHO WERE WRITING ABOUT THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL WHETHER THOSE PRESENTATIONS WERE SENT TO THEM.

MR. DOWNEY: GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT KINDS OF PEOPLE RECEIVED THOSE PRESENTATIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT WASN'T COMMON TO SEND THOSE PRESENTATIONS OVER AN EMAIL, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT -- AND THE OVERVIEW PRESENTATIONS DIFFERED BASED ON THE AUDIENCE. SO THE BOARD, THERE WERE INVESTORS, BUSINESS PARTNERS, HOSPITAL SYSTEMS. SO THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE AT LEAST VIEWED -- WELL, I WOULDN'T SAY THEY WERE GIVEN THE PRESENTATION. IN A MEETING, CERTAIN SLIDES WOULD BE DISCUSSED. BUT IT WASN'T COMMON TO GO THROUGH THE PRESENTATION SLIDE BY SLIDE SEQUENTIALLY. IT KIND OF DEPENDED ON THE CONVERSATION.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND THERE MIGHT BE SUBJECT MATTERS THAT MS. HOLMES THOUGHT THAT A PARTICULAR AUDIENCE WAS INTERESTED IN?

MR. DOWNEY: SO SHE MIGHT DISCUSS CERTAIN SLIDES, BUT NOT OTHERS DURING THE COURSE OF THE MEETING?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DID YOU MAINTAIN A KIND OF MASTER COPY OF A PRESENTATION ON A SHARED DRIVE AT THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'D SAY MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAD THE ABILITY TO EDIT AND MAINTAIN IT, BUT THERE WAS A MASTER VERSION THAT WAS SAVED ON A SHARED DRIVE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND THAT WAS SORT OF A STANDARD FORM THAT COULD BE ALTERED BASED ON THE PARTICULAR AUDIENCE THAT WAS GOING TO RECEIVE THE PRESENTATION?

DANIEL EDLIN: I RECALL THERE BEING MULTIPLE VERSIONS OF PRESENTATIONS FOR AN INTENDED -- FOR A SPECIFIC AUDIENCE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO WERE THERE SOME PRESENTATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR HOSPITALS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEY WOULD BE DIFFERENT FROM PRESENTATIONS FOR STRATEGIC PARTNERS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEY MIGHT BE DIFFERENT, AGAIN, FROM PRESENTATIONS FOR INVESTORS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT WHAT ALL OF THEM HAD IN COMMON WAS THAT THEY SHARED DATA ABOUT THERANOS'S ASSAY PERFORMANCE; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: GENERALLY, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME SHOW YOU AN EXHIBIT THAT IS MARKED AS 10464. YOUR HONOR, THIS IS ANOTHER BULKY EXHIBIT, SO I JUST SEPARATED IT INTO --

JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: -- A SEPARATE BINDER WHICH I'LL PASS UP.

(HANDING.)

MR. DOWNEY: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS?

JUDGE DAVILA: YES. THANK YOU.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: (HANDING.)

DANIEL EDLIN: THANK YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: LET'S TAKE A MOMENT TO REVIEW 10464 AND SEE IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU RECOGNIZE.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

DANIEL EDLIN: I DO RECOGNIZE IT AS A CONFIDENTIAL OVERVIEW PRESENTATION.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

DANIEL EDLIN: BUT I CAN'T IDENTIFY WHO THE ACTUAL INTENDED AUDIENCE IS.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE ON THE FRONT THAT THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM YOU TO MS. HOLMES, MR. BALWANI, AND CHRISTIAN HOLMES?

DANIEL EDLIN: ONE MOMENT. YES.

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 10464.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10464 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: I'LL SHOW YOU THAT FIRST PAGE, AND THIS IS JUST AN EMAIL WITH YOU TRANSMITTING THE PRESENTATION TEMPLATE THAT EXISTED AS OF JUNE 2013 TO MS. HOLMES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE PRESENTATION THAT IS ATTACHED, IT'S A VERY LONG PRESENTATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IF YOU GO FORWARD IN THE PRESENTATION TO THE SLIDE THAT IS MARKED AS SLIDE 28, AND YOU SEE THAT HAS THE WORD IMMUNO CHEMISTRY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S A REFERENCE TO A CATEGORY OF ASSAY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU FLIP FORWARD THROUGH THAT TO THE FOLLOWING PAGES IN THE EXHIBIT, YOU SEE THAT THERE ARE JUST DOZENS AND DOZENS OF PAGES ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE OF THERANOS ASSAYS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES THIS WOULD BE SHARED WITH, I THINK WITH POTENTIAL HOSPITAL PARTNERS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD BE SHARED WITH AUDIENCES WHO THEMSELVES DIDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO EVALUATE THE DATA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT THEY MIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE, CALL ON SOME THIRD PARTY TO EVALUATE THAT DATA FOR THEM?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT SOUNDS ACCURATE, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME FOCUS ON THE PROCESS THAT YOU WENT THROUGH -- AND YOU PARTICIPATED IN COMPILING SOME OF THE DATA THAT IS IN THESE SLIDES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME FOCUS ON THAT PROCESS FOR A MINUTE. FIRST OF ALL, YOU PERSONALLY DIDN'T GENERATE ANY OF THIS DATA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. INSTEAD, MS. HOLMES WOULD ASK YOU TO REACH OUT TO THE VARIOUS SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING TEAMS WITHIN THERANOS FOR THE LATEST INFORMATION; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT, THE LATEST AND GREATEST DATA.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT EXHIBIT 7217. LET ME ASK YOU IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY THIS AS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN YOURSELF, MS. HOLMES, AND OTHERS AT THERANOS.

DANIEL EDLIN: IS THIS IN THE --

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FIRST PAGE THERE, THERE'S AN EMAIL EXCHANGE, AND THEN IT GOES UP FROM THERE, AND IT'S BETWEEN MS. HOLMES, YOURSELF, AND OTHERS AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: I WOULD MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 7217, YOUR HONOR.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 7217 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE, THAT'S THE FIRST EMAIL THAT IS FROM MS. HOLMES, AND THEN IT'S TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THERE. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THOSE ARE THE PRODUCT MANAGERS IN THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ALL OF THEM HAD DIFFERENT RESPONSIBILITIES IN DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE COMPANY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IT WAS COPIED TO MR. BALWANI. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN THE EMAIL SHE SAYS, "WE HAVE A DOD MEETING TOMORROW AT 8:45. PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THE ATTACHED AND LET ME KNOW IF THERE IS ANY UPDATED CONTENT WE HAVE THAT WE ARE MISSING, OR IF THERE IS CONTENT THAT YOU WOULD UPDATE." AND THEN YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT. AND DO YOU SEE HERE THAT SHE CC'S A NEW AUDIENCE OF PEOPLE IN THIS EMAIL?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE COPIES IN THE ASSAY LEADS AT THE COMPANY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE'S ASKING THEM IN THIS EMAIL, DO THEY HAVE MORE AND RECENT DATA ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE OF THERANOS ASSAYS RELATIVE TO OTHER -- EITHER A REFERENCE METHOD OR THE PERFORMANCE OF OTHER COMPANY'S ASSAYS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ABOVE THAT, THERE'S AN EMAIL FROM DR. PANGARKAR. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE INDICATES IN THE EMAIL THAT THEY DO HAVE MORE DATA ON ONE CATEGORY OF THE ASSAYS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE TOP, MS. HOLMES ASKS THAT THAT INFORMATION BE SENT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DO SEE THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND THAT -- THIS WAS A FAIRLY STANDARD DISCUSSION THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN CONNECTION WITH UPDATING THE PRESENTATION DECK THAT WAS MAINTAINED AT THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT 10448. DO YOU SEE THAT THIS IS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN YOU AND DR. YOUNG? ARE YOU ABLE TO FIND THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I WAS NOT ABLE TO FIND THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: I HAVE A COPY HERE FOR YOU.

JUDGE DAVILA: I DON'T THINK THAT MADE IT INTO MINE, EITHER. 10448?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME PASS THAT EXHIBIT --

MR. DOWNEY: -- AND THEN I'LL COME BACK AND DO ANOTHER ONE.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT 104666?

MR. BOSTIC: IT'S TOO MANY DIGITS.

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T SEE 104666. I SEE 10466.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, LET ME -- YOUR HONOR, DO YOU HAVE 104666?

JUDGE DAVILA: I HAVE 10466, YES. IS THAT A 10-14 EMAIL?

MR. DOWNEY: YES, BUT I HAVE THAT MARKED AS 10466.

JUDGE DAVILA: THAT'S WHAT I HAVE. 10466, DO YOU HAVE THAT, SIR?

DANIEL EDLIN: TWO 6'S AT THE END.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF, IF -- IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN YOU AND VARIOUS SCIENTISTS AND MS. HOLMES AND MR. BALWANI AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE -- YOUR HONOR, I MOVE FOR THE ADMISSION OF 10466.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10466 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL AT THE BOTTOM OF 10466, YOU SEE THAT MS. HOLMES IS AGAIN TELLING THE SCIENTISTS THAT THERE'S AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT MEETING AND SHE -- DO YOU SEE IN THE SECOND SENTENCE THAT SHE SAYS, "DAN" -- REFERRING TO YOU? IS THAT IN REFERENCE TO YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: -- "WILL BE SENDING THE RELEVANT SECTIONS FROM THE PRESENTATION THAT DETAIL CLINICAL CORRELATIONS." CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE ASKED THAT THEY EACH REVIEW THE PRESENTATION TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS ACCURATE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND AS PART OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES, YOU WOULD OFTEN FOLLOW UP WITH THE SCIENTISTS MANY TIMES TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WAS IN THOSE SLIDES WAS ACCURATE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE BINDER THAT I GAVE YOU A MOMENT AGO AT THE DOCUMENT THAT IS MARKED 3696. DO YOU SEE THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES. YES, I SEE IT.

MR. DOWNEY: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO TAKE A MINUTE TO FLIP THROUGH THAT DOCUMENT TO SEE IF YOU RECOGNIZE IT.

DANIEL EDLIN: IT LOOKS FAMILIAR.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IS THIS A PRESENTATION THAT WAS SENT TO AN INVESTOR IN THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THE REFERENCE IN THE BOTTOM OF THE DOCUMENT TO MOSLEY FAMILY HOLDINGS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS THAT A NAME THAT YOU RECOGNIZE?

MR. DOWNEY: WHO IS THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: AN INVESTOR.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT 3696.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED, AND IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 3696 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: SO THIS IS THE COVER PAGE THAT IS BEING DISPLAYED NOW ON PAGE 1 OF THE EXHIBIT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU TO GO FORWARD TO PAGE 23 OF THE EXHIBIT, WHICH I'LL HAVE DISPLAYED ON THE SCREEN.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THAT SLIDE? IT'S LABELLED BETTER DATA FROM FRESHER SAMPLES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL WORKING ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SLIDE WHEN YOU WERE AT THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY.

MR. DOWNEY: CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US IF YOU KNOW WHAT THIS SLIDE CONVEYS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT THE EXPERT HERE, BUT JUST BY READING THE DESCRIPTION HERE, IT SAYS THAT THERANOS RAPIDLY PROCESSES SAMPLES AND ALLOWS FOR ANALYSIS OF KEY MARKERS BEFORE THEIR ANALYTE DECAY RATES AFFECT RESULT INTEGRITY. I BELIEVE IT REFERS TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT PASSED BETWEEN WHEN A SAMPLE IS COLLECTED AND WHEN IT'S TESTED.

MR. DOWNEY: AND WAS IT TRYING TO CONVEY THAT BECAUSE THERANOS WAS ABLE TO PROCESS ITS SAMPLES MORE QUICKLY THAN ITS COMPETITORS, THAT LED TO BETTER DATA?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10469.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL AT THE SAME TIME TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10468, AND WE'LL DEAL WITH THEM IN SEQUENCE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IF YOU LOOK AT 10469, IS THIS AN EMAIL IN WHICH YOU'RE CONVEYING OPTIONS FOR A GRAPH TO MS. HOLMES ABOUT HOW THIS CONCEPT OF BETTER DATA FROM FRESHER SAMPLES MIGHT BE PRESENTED IN THE SLIDE DECK?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT, BUT THE DATA THAT GOES INTO THIS SLIDE IS NOT DATA THAT YOU YOURSELF COMPILED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT -- WELL, YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT 10469.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10469 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT 10468, IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN MS. HOLMES, DR. YOUNG, AND YOURSELF RELATED TO THE SAME SLIDE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL AT THE BOTTOM OF 10468, DO YOU SEE THAT THAT IS THE SAME EMAIL WITH YOU CONVEYING THE DRAFT SLIDES TO MS. HOLMES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN -- COULD WE PUBLISH 10468, YOUR HONOR?

MR. BOSTIC: IT'S NOT IN EVIDENCE.

MR. DOWNEY: I'M SORRY. I MOVE ITS ADMISSION.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT MAY BE PUBLISHED, YES.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10468 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL AT THE BOTTOM, YOU WILL SEE THAT THIS IS -- AT THE VERY BOTTOM IT'S AGAIN THE EMAIL OF YOU FORWARDING OPTIONS TO MS. HOLMES AS TO HOW THE GRAPH MIGHT LOOK?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU SEE MS. HOLMES'S RESPONSE TO THAT EMAIL SAYING, "DANIEL: ARE YOU SAYING 2 HOURS FROM THE TIME IT BECOMES SERUM IN THE BELOW GRAPH." DO YOU SEE THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT. AND THAT'S REFERRING TO DANIEL YOUNG.

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT. AND SHE'S RESPONDING TO YOUR EMAIL ON WHICH DR. YOUNG WAS COPIED BY ASKING DR. YOUNG ABOUT THE CONTENT OF THE EMAIL; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO ABOVE THAT TO THE NEXT SERIES OF EMAILS, DR. YOUNG RESPONDS AND SAYS AT THE BOTTOM, HE TALKS ABOUT THE TIME OF SAMPLE COLLECTION AND THE DECAY RATE OF THE BLOOD, ET CETERA.

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE'S TELLING MS. HOLMES ABOUT HOW HE COMPILED THE DATA HE HAD GIVEN TO YOU; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN MS. HOLMES RESPONDS TO THAT ASKING A QUESTION ABOUT REFRIGERATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BECAUSE THE -- WHETHER OR NOT THE BLOOD SAMPLES WERE REFRIGERATED COULD AFFECT THE DECAY RATE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN MS. HOLMES SUGGESTS -- DR. YOUNG RESPONDS IT DOESN'T. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MS. HOLMES SAYS, WELL, "IF THEY CURRENTLY DO REFRIGERATE THEN WE SHOULD REFLECT THAT SO WE ARE MAKING AN ACCURATE CLAIM." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 3696. AND I'M DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION --

DANIEL EDLIN: WHICH BINDER IS THAT IN?

MR. DOWNEY: I BEG YOUR PARDON. THIS WAS THE POWERPOINT THAT WE ADMITTED A MOMENT AGO, THE SLIDE DECK THAT WE ADMITTED A MOMENT AGO.

MR. DOWNEY: AND I'LL POINT YOU ON THE SCREEN WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO GO. NOW I WANT TO LOOK AT PAGE 24. AND DO YOU SEE THAT THIS SLIDE IS ANOTHER SLIDE THAT IS COMMENTING ON THE ACCURACY OF THERANOS'S BLOOD TESTING SERVICES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS AS A SLIDE THAT WAS INCLUDED IN SLIDE DECKS SENT TO OR DISCUSSED WITH EXTERNAL AUDIENCES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE IT AS ALSO SOMETHING WHICH APPEARED ON THE THERANOS WEBSITE AT CERTAIN TIMES?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU NOW TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10532.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THAT THIS IS A SERIES OF EMAILS BETWEEN YOURSELF, DR. YOUNG, AND ANOTHER THERANOS EMPLOYEES NAMED JEFFREY BLICKMAN?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MR. BLICKMAN WAS ANOTHER PRODUCT MANAGER AT THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE WAS INVOLVED WITH THE CREATION OF SOME ELEMENTS OF THE WEBSITE; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: HE WORKED WITH A WEB DEVELOPMENT TEAM AND WAS THE MAIN PRODUCT MANAGER WHO WORKED ON THAT PARTICULAR ASPECT.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND HE IN THIS, IN THE EMAIL THAT IS AT THE -- YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 10532.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10532 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT THE EMAIL AT THE BOTTOM, AND THEN BRING UP THE NEXT PAGE AS WELL. DO YOU SEE ON THE SECOND PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT THAT HE PROPOSED A GRAPHIC WHICH WAS ABOUT HOW WELL THE VITAMIN D ASSAY PERFORMED FOR THERANOS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE'S DISCUSSING THERE A DEGREE OF VARIANCE. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHAT DOES THAT REFER TO?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT REFERS TO ACCURACY.

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE'S IN THIS DRAFT CONVEYING THAT HIS UNDERSTANDING OF THE DEGREE OF VARIANCE IS PLUS OR MINUS 3.0. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IF YOU GO BACK TO THE FIRST PAGE, DO YOU SEE IN THE SECOND EMAIL FROM THE BOTTOM DR. YOUNG RESPONDS AND HE PROVIDES DATA REGARDING THE DEGREE OF VARIANCE FOR VITAMIN D. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH, OR THIRD PARAGRAPH, HE SAYS, "I WOULD SAY THAT THE VARIANCE IS LESS THAN 10 PERCENT. NOT SURE WHERE THE PLUS OR MINUS 3 CAME FROM." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE SLIDE THAT IS PART OF EXHIBIT 3696 ABOUT THIS ISSUE WITH VITAMIN D --

MR. DOWNEY: -- DO YOU SEE THAT THIS IS THE FORM THAT EXISTED IN THE SLIDE DECK THAT YOU SENT OUT TO MR. MOSLEY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T REMEMBER WHETHER I SENT IT TO MR. MOSLEY, BUT IT'S IN THE -- IT IS IN THE DECK RELATED TO MR. MOSLEY.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IT'S IN THE SLIDE DECK AS OF 2014; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHEN THE DECK WAS SENT.

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. WITHIN EXHIBIT 3696, CAN WE ALSO LOOK AT PAGE 27.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT THE LABEL FOR THIS SLIDE IS FASTER RESULTS, FASTER ANSWERS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS IS A COMMENTARY ON HOW QUICKLY THERANOS COULD TURN AROUND BLOOD TESTING RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH, THE BOTTOM TWO PARAGRAPHS, IT INDICATES, "DATA REPORTED IN HIGH QUALITY AND IN REAL-TIME BECOMES ACTIONABLE INFORMATION FOR IMPROVED DECISION MAKING." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THERANOS FREQUENTLY CONVEYED TO EXTERNAL AUDIENCES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE THAT IT SAYS, "THERANOS'S MICRO-SAMPLE ANALYSIS IS PERFORMED AT AMAZING SPEEDS, SO WE CAN REPORT RESULTS FASTER THAN PREVIOUSLY POSSIBLE." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND NOW LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 13935.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU HAVE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE ON WHICH YOU WERE COPIED INVOLVING COMMUNICATIONS BY THERANOS PERSONNEL WITH AN OUTSIDE BRANDING FIRM THAT IT HAD ENGAGED?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 13935.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13935 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE OF THIS DOCUMENT, YOU SEE IT'S AN EMAIL THAT IS FROM SOMEONE NAMED MIKE PEDITTO. WHO WAS MIKE PEDITTO?

DANIEL EDLIN: HE WAS A MANAGEMENT SUPERVISOR AND ACCOUNT MANAGER AT TBWACHIAT/DAY.

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU SEE YOU'RE LISTED AS ONE OF THE RECIPIENTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL NAMED STAN FIORITO IS LISTED. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHO WAS HE?

DANIEL EDLIN: HE WAS AN ACCOUNT EXECUTIVE, IF NOT A HIGHER TITLE, AT CHIAT/DAY.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IT SAYS BELOW THAT, PLEASE FIND A CONFERENCE REPORT FROM A MEETING THAT HAD TAKEN PLACE THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN ATTACHED TO THIS IS A DOCUMENT WHICH LOOKS LIKE IT'S SOME NOTES ON A MEETING THAT HAPPENED THE DAY BEFORE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE ATTENDEES, YOU SEE THAT THERE ARE VARIOUS PEOPLE FROM THERANOS AND THERE ARE VARIOUS PEOPLE FROM CHIAT/DAY, AND A COUPLE OF OTHER FIRMS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND JUST TO REFER TO THEM, WORKING UP FROM THE BOTTOM, GROW IS ANOTHER FIRM THAT THERANOS PAID FOR CONSULTATION IN CONNECTION WITH BRANDING AND MEDIA; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE OF THE EXACT STATUS OF THE PAYMENT, BUT THEY DID WORK WITH GROW MARKETING, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHAT ABOUT PHD?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND SHOPPER LAB?

DANIEL EDLIN: I ALSO DON'T RECALL.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT THIS IS A MEETING THAT IS ABOUT ANTICIPATING SOME OF THE CONTENT THAT THERANOS MIGHT USE IN CONNECTION WITH ITS WEBSITE AND OTHER PUBLIC FACING MATERIALS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT, IT'S A MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS MEETING.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT PAGE 3. AND IF YOU GO TO THE SECTION ON PAGE 3 THAT IS COMMENTING ON A KEYNOTE SPEECH, YOU SEE IT'S LABELLED A BETTER WAY?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THE SECOND BULLET POINT UNDER THAT SAYS, "CLIENT AND T/C/D? IS T/C/D ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING CHIAT/DAY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT THEY DISCUSSED CHANGING THE CLOCK ON THE WEBSITE TO REFLECT 30 MINUTE PROCESS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS THAT A REFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT THERANOS BELIEVED IF A BLOOD TEST WERE RUN ON ITS DEVICE WHEN THE DEVICE WAS IN THE LOCATION, IT WOULD TAKE AROUND 30 MINUTES?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS DEVICE SPECIFICALLY. I THINK IT WAS RELATED TO A THERANOS TEST.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND OF COURSE WALGREENS AND THERANOS WERE NO LONGER PLANNING TO DO THE TESTS ON SITE AT WALGREENS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE THAT WAS THE CASE AT THE TIME OF THIS EMAIL.

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, DO YOU SEE IN THE SECOND LINE IT SAYS, "SUNNY BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT THE INITIAL TURN AROUND IN WALGREENS WILL BE UNDER 24 HOURS"?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DOES THIS INDICATE THAT IT HAD BEEN AFTER THE TIME THAT THERE HAD ALREADY BEEN A DECISION TO MOVE THE ANALYSIS OFF SITE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK BACK -- IN ANY EVENT, THE SENTENCE "SUNNY BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT INITIAL TURN AROUND IN WALGREENS WILL BE UNDER 24 HOURS." "T/C/D AND CLIENT" -- DOES "CLIENT" THERE REFER TO THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: -- "ALIGNED TO USE CONSISTENT VERBIAGE TO REFLECT UNPRECEDENTED TURN AROUND TIME, WITH NO SPECIFIC TIME MENTION." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO BACK TO EXHIBIT 3696 --

MR. DOWNEY: -- AND YOU LOOK AT PAGE 27 --

MR. DOWNEY: -- YOU SEE THAT THIS IS THE SLIDE SENT TO INVESTORS AND DISPLAYED ON THE THERANOS WEBSITE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE SPEED WITH WHICH TESTS WILL BE PERFORMED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IT SAYS THAT THE RESULTS WILL BE IN HOURS, NOT DAYS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT THERE'S NO CLAIM ABOUT THE SPEED BEING IN 30 MINUTES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: DID YOU HEAR THE TERM, WHEN YOU WERE AT THERANOS, AUTO REFLEX TESTING?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHAT DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TO MEAN?

DANIEL EDLIN: I UNDERSTOOD THAT TO MEAN THAT ADDITIONAL TESTING COULD BE PERFORMED ON A SAMPLE BASED ON THE INITIAL SET OF TESTS DONE AND BASED ON THE RESULTS OF THE INITIAL SET OF TESTS DONE.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND CAN I ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10467.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN YOURSELF AND DR. YOUNG, COPYING MR. BLICKMAN? I BEG YOUR PARDON. IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN DR. YOUNG AND MR. BLICKMAN, COPYING YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS THIS IN CONNECTION WITH PREPARING CONTENT TO BE DISPLAYED ON THE THERANOS WEBSITE?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT 10467.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10467 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE IN THE BOTTOM EMAIL ON THE SECOND TO THE LAST PAGE, YOU SEND AN EMAIL TO DR. YOUNG ON AUGUST 9TH AT ABOUT 2:10 A.M.?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU ASK HIM THERE -- YOU INDICATE YOU WANT TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS BASED ON HIS EXPERTISE. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU LIST A NUMBER OF ITEMS ON THE NEXT PAGE THAT YOU WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN NUMBER 3, YOU INDICATE ONE OF THE ITEMS IS AUTO REFLEX TESTING. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU ASK HIM IN THE SECOND SENTENCE THERE, "CAN YOU PROVIDE SOME EXAMPLE OF A COMMON TEST WITH ITS ASSOCIATED REFLEX TESTS AND LIST ANY TESTS THAT WOULD COME BEFORE/AFTER IT ON A LAB ORDER FORM." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS COMPLEX CONCEPT COULD BE CONVEYED ON THE WEBSITE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT IT'S A TOPIC ON WHICH YOU WOULD NEED INFORMATION FROM AN EXPERT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S WHY YOU WENT TO DR. YOUNG; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DR. YOUNG RESPONDS IN THE SECOND EMAIL FROM THE BOTTOM ON THE PRIOR PAGE, DO YOU SEE THAT, ABOUT 2:50 P.M. ON THE NEXT DAY?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE INDICATES AND OFFERS EXAMPLES OF SOME TESTS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT INITIATES A DISCUSSION OF THE DATA THAT YOU MIGHT USE TO DISPLAY THIS CONCEPT ON THE WEBSITE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE ULTIMATE -- IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL THAT IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THIRD PAGE OF THE EXHIBIT, AUGUST 11TH AT 8:50 P.M. --

MR. DOWNEY: -- DO YOU SEE THAT? AND DR. YOUNG PROVIDES TO YOU AND MR. BLICKMAN BASIC REFLEX INFORMATION AND TESTS THAT IT ASSOCIATES WITH; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU KNOW THAT ONE CLAIM THAT THERANOS FREQUENTLY MADE WAS WITH RESPECT TO THE AFFORDABILITY OF ITS BLOOD TESTING PRODUCT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ON THAT SUBJECT MATTER, YOU ALSO GAINED INFORMATION FROM OTHERS IN THE COMPANY ABOUT WHAT YOUR COMPETITORS WERE CHARGING AS RETAIL PRICES FOR BLOOD TESTING SERVICES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: SO ANY OF THE SUBJECT MATTERS THAT REQUIRED PARTICULARIZED EXPERTISE, YOU WOULD GO TO THE RELEVANT PERSON AND, AND ASK FOR INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN PREPARING A POTENTIAL SLIDE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OR CONFIRMING A SLIDE THAT CHIAT/DAY HAD PREPARED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: I'D LIKE TO TALK FOR A FEW MINUTES ABOUT THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD YESTERDAY WITH MR. BOSTIC ABOUT JOURNALISTS AND OTHERS BOTH MR. RAGO AND MR. PARLOFF. DO YOU REMEMBER THE SERIES OF QUESTIONS THAT YOU WERE ASKED ON THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WE MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO GROW MARKETING. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL THAT THERANOS RETAINED GROW MARKETING TO HELP WITH ITS PRESS STRATEGY AROUND ANNOUNCING ITS -- BOTH ITSELF AS A CORPORATION AND ITS CONSUMER LAUNCH?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 13979.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT'S THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN IT IN A NUMBER OF YEARS, BUT --

MR. DOWNEY: TAKE A MOMENT.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

DANIEL EDLIN: OKAY. I RECOGNIZE IT.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN A REPRESENTATIVE OF GROW AND YOURSELF AND OTHER EMPLOYEES AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IS THIS EMAIL IN CONNECTION WITH GROW PROVIDING A MEDIA TRAINING DECK FOR MS. HOLMES?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 13979.

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, JUST A RELEVANCE QUESTION. I DON'T SEE MS. HOLMES ON THIS EMAIL.

MR. DOWNEY: THE WITNESS JUST TESTIFIED IT WAS MEDIA TRAINING FOR MS. HOLMES.

JUDGE DAVILA: I'LL ALLOW IT. IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13979 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT SLIDE 8. NOW, MS. HOLMES WAS GOING TO BE INTERVIEWED BY MR. RAGO IN LATE AUGUST OF 2013; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND GROW WAS PROVIDING ADVICE TO HER AS TO HOW SHE SHOULD HANDLE THAT INTERVIEW; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WERE MEDIA TRAINING SESSIONS WHERE GROW PROVIDED ADVICE TO MS. HOLMES AS TO HOW SHE SHOULD ANSWER QUESTIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND TOPICS SHE MIGHT WANT TO DISCUSS WITH THE REPORTER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT SLIDE, THE SLIDE THAT IS DESIGNATED AS PAGE 8 IN THE EXHIBIT, IT HAS A HEADER COMPANY LAUNCH OBJECTIVES. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU REVIEW THAT, DO YOU GENERALLY RECALL THAT GROW MARKETING'S ADVICE WAS THAT THE MEDIA STRATEGY SHOULD SEEK TO ACHIEVE THESE OBJECTIVES?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECALL THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THE INITIAL LAUNCH, MS. HOLMES DID NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT THERANOS'S PROPRIETARY DEVICE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DO RECALL THAT.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU NOW TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 13980.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECALL THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THE INTERVIEW WITH MR. RAGO, GROW MARKETING COORDINATED PROVIDING INFORMATION TO MR. RAGO ABOUT THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY.

DANIEL EDLIN: BUT THEY DID HELP, I THINK, COORDINATE THAT CONVERSATION.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT 13980, AND I'M ASKING IF THIS IS AN EMAIL BETWEEN A REPRESENTATIVE OF GROW MARKETING AND MS. HOLMES, YOURSELF, AND OTHERS?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 13980.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 13980 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE ON THE FIRST PAGE THAT THERE'S AN EMAIL BETWEEN -- SENT BY MS. ANDERSON AT GROW MARKETING?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE WAS ONE OF THE MEDIA CONSULTING PEOPLE HELPING THERANOS HERE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU SEE IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH THAT SHE'S FORWARDING AN ATTACHED -- AS AN ATTACHED, AN UPDATED THERANOS STORY DOCUMENT, INCLUDING STATISTICS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THOSE STATISTICS RELATED TO THINGS LIKE OVER-PRESCRIPTION AND OTHER ISSUES IN THE HEALTH INDUSTRY THAT WOULD MAKE THERANOS'S SERVICES ATTRACTIVE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN THE MEDIA TRAINING THAT MS. HOLMES RECEIVED FROM GROW MARKETING?

DANIEL EDLIN: I ATTENDED. I WOULDN'T SAY I PARTICIPATED.

MR. DOWNEY: YOU WERE JUST AN OBSERVER IN CONNECTION WITH THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. NOW, WE DISCUSSED EARLIER THE WEBSITE AND CHIAT/DAY'S ROLE IN ADVISING THERANOS WITH RESPECT TO THE LAUNCH OF ITS WEBSITE. WAS THAT DONE AROUND THE SAME TIME AS THE ARTICLE WAS PUBLISHED BY MR. RAGO?

MR. DOWNEY: AND CREATING THAT WEBSITE WAS A HUGE PROJECT, WASN'T IT?

MR. DOWNEY: THERANOS HAD A VERY PRIMITIVE WEBSITE PRIOR TO THAT TIME?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SEVERAL OF THE PRODUCT MANAGERS WERE INVOLVED IN THE CREATION OF CONTENT RELATED TO THE WEBSITE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SEVERAL OF THE SCIENTISTS PROVIDED INFORMATION IN CONNECTION WITH CREATION OF THE WEBSITE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WERE OUTSIDE BRANDING AND MEDIA ADVISORS WHO ADVISED ON HOW THE WEBSITE SHOULD LOOK; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WERE LAWYERS WHO REVIEWED THE CONTENT OF THE WEBSITE PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT IT WAS -- WENT LIVE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN AFTER THE WEBSITE WAS LAUNCHED, THERE CONTINUED TO BE UPDATES TO THE WEBSITE EVERY FEW WEEKS OR SO; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL THE CADENCE, BUT THERE WERE UPDATES MADE AFTER IT LAUNCHED.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 37 -- 7365. 7365.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL EXCHANGE INVOLVING MS. HOLMES, YOURSELF, AND OTHERS AT THERANOS ABOUT THE THERANOS WEBSITE IN NOVEMBER OF 2013?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT 7365.

MR. BOSTIC: I'M STILL TRYING TO FIND THIS ONE. WHICH BINDER IS THIS IN, COUNSEL?

MR. DOWNEY: IT SHOULD BE IN THE BINDER THAT I GAVE YOU YESTERDAY.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 7365 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

MR. DOWNEY: GO TO THE BOTTOM EMAIL ON THE FIRST PAGE HERE.

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM MS. BLICKMAN -- OR MR. BLICKMAN TO MS. HOLMES AND YOU'RE COPIED. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE REPORTS IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH THAT THE CALL CENTER AT THERANOS HAD RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ABOUT AN ENTRY ON THE WEBSITE NOT BEING CLEAR. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WEBSITE RELATED TO THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE WERE CALLING AND SAYING, I WASN'T EXPECTING TO GET A VENOUS DRAW; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO HE PROPOSED THAT THERE BE A CLARIFICATION TO THE WEBSITE THAT HAD BEEN ADVISED BY CHIAT/DAY. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROPOSAL BELOW, IT'S THE CLIP THAT BEGINS "THE ONLY THING"?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IN THE BODY OF THE EMAIL, IT SAYS, "INSTEAD OF A BIG, INTIMIDATING NEEDLE, OUR CERTIFIED PHLEBOTOMISTS CAN USE A TINY FINGERSTICK OR A MICRO-SAMPLE FROM A VENOUS DRAW." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT REFERS TO TWO OF THE WAYS THAT BLOOD WOULD BE DRAWN IN CONNECTION WITH THERANOS BLOOD TESTING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES THERE WOULD BE THE FINGERSTICK, WHICH WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SOMETIMES THERE WOULD BE A MICRO-SAMPLE DRAWN FROM THE ARM; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THERE WOULD BE A VENOUS SAMPLE DRAWN FROM THE ARM.

MR. DOWNEY: RIGHT. BUT THE SAMPLE THAT WAS DRAWN WAS SMALLER THAN A TYPICAL VENOUS SAMPLE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S WHAT THE REFERENCE TO MICRO-SAMPLE IS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN THIS CLIP FROM CHIAT/DAY PROPOSED THAT THERE BE A FOOTNOTE SAYING "OCCASIONALLY, A VENIPUNCTURE MAY BE REQUIRED, BASED ON THE LAB ORDER." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: "THIS IS UNCOMMON, AND WE AIM TO ELIMINATE THIS SCENARIO ENTIRELY." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN TERMS OF THE LAST PHRASE, DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERANOS WAS WORKING TO VALIDATE NEW ASSAYS ALL OF THE TIME?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHEN IT HAD NOT YET VALIDATED ASSAYS IN ITS CLIA LAB, IT WAS STILL USING VENIPUNCTURE DRAW?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO MR. BLICKMAN FORWARDED CHIAT'S RECOMMENDATION, AND LET'S LOOK AT MS. HOLMES'S RESPONSE. DO YOU SEE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH SHE SAYS, "I DID NOT SEE THIS CONCEPT OF THE ASTERISK SENT TO ME OR MENTIONED TO ME AT ALL. IF WE ARE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS WE NEED TO OWN IT AND NOT CONTRADICT OURSELVES. SEE BELOW. THIS COPY SHOULD BE UPDATED ASAP." AND DO YOU SEE IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH SHE SAYS, "INSTEAD OF A BIG, INTIMIDATING NEEDLE, OUR CERTIFIED PHLEBOTOMISTS CAN USE A TINY FINGER STICK OR A MICRO-SAMPLE FROM A VENOUS DRAW." AND SHE THEN INSERTS THE SENTENCE ABOUT VENIPUNCTURE INTO THE TEXT THAT WILL APPEAR ON THE WEBSITE, AND IT SAYS, THE VENIPUNCTURE MAY BE REQUIRED BUT IT IS UNCOMMON AND THE AIM IS TO ELIMINATE IT. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE TOP, YOU SEE MR. BLICKMAN RESPONDS THAT HE UNDERSTANDS AND THAT THE TEAM WILL MAKE THE CHANGE ASAP. DO YOU SEE THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU ACTUALLY GO BACK TO YOUR PREVIOUS QUESTION?

DANIEL EDLIN: IS THAT POSSIBLE?

MR. DOWNEY: SURE. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, DO YOU SEE THE SECTION OF THE EMAIL FROM MS. HOLMES TO MR. BLICKMAN ON NOVEMBER 27TH, 2013, AT 8:18 P.M.? DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT SHE MOVED WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED TO BE A FOOTNOTE INTO THE TEXT; RIGHT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THEN AT THE TOP THAT THERE'S AN EMAIL FROM MR. BLICKMAN TO MS. HOLMES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT HE SAYS, "UNDERSTOOD," AND HE'LL ASK THE TEAM TO MAKE THIS UPDATE ASAP. CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES. I THOUGHT I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION, BUT I DID NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: I WANT TO JUST ASK YOU ABOUT A FEW OTHER DOCUMENTS RELATED TO CHIAT/DAY, AND MY QUESTIONING WITH RESPECT TO THEM IS BRIEF. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10554.

MR. DOWNEY: IS EXHIBIT 10554 AN EXHIBIT EXCHANGE BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF GROW MARKETING, MS. HOLMES, YOURSELF, AND OTHERS AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE EMAIL AT THE TOP -- WELL, AND YOU SEE THAT'S AN EMAIL THAT CHRISTIAN HOLMES SENT TO A REPRESENTATIVE OF GROW MARKETING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 10554.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10554 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE AT THE TOP MR. HOLMES IS PROVIDING A COMMENT ON A STATS AND SOURCES DOCUMENT FOR THE JOE RAGO INTERVIEW. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE WHERE HE INDICATES "A FEW COMMENTS ON THE STATS/SOURCES." AND THEN THERE'S A BULLET POINT THAT SAYS STANDARD THERANOS STATISTICS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK BELOW THAT -- NOW, THE WAY THAT THIS EMAIL HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED IS AT THE BOTTOM EMAIL, THE SECOND HALF, THE BOTTOM EMAIL THERE'S AN EMAIL FROM MS. FOGELMAN, AND IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH SHE SAYS, "WE NEED YOUR HELP TO NAIL DOWN THE FOLLOWING STATISTICS AND THEIR SOURCES ASAP." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO SHE'S ASKING CHRISTIAN HOLMES AND OTHERS TO PROVIDE HELP NAILING DOWN STATISTICS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK, THE FIRST QUESTION SHE ASKS IS ABOUT STANDARD THERANOS STATISTICS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO DOWN A LITTLE FURTHER FROM THERE, SHE LISTS A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT PERCENTAGES OF LAB TESTING AND BACKGROUND ON THE LAB INDUSTRY, ET CETERA?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTIC, THAT ONE STATISTIC THAT SHE ASKED FOR RELATES TO ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY IN BLOOD TESTING. DO YOU SEE THAT THERE?

DANIEL EDLIN: WHICH BULLET?

MR. DOWNEY: THERE'S A BULLET AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE THAT SAYS, "THE PRE AND POST ANALYTICAL PHASES OF THE LAB TESTING PROCESS ACCOUNT FOR 93 PERCENT OF ERRORS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE ASKS, "IS THERE MORE A MORE RECENT STATISTIC THAN THIS 1993 AACC ARTICLE." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND AACC IS A CLINICAL ORGANIZATION RELATING TO BLOOD TESTING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE PRIOR PAGE AND YOU LOOK AT THE RESPONSES THAT MR. HOLMES GIVES, IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH, MR. HOLMES TELLS MS. FOGELMAN, "THE SOURCE OF THIS STAT CAME FROM A CLINICAL CHEMISTRY ARTICLE IN 1993," AND THEN HE UPDATES IT AND SAYS THAT THERE IS ANOTHER ARTICLE IN 2009 WHICH ALSO INDICATES THE SAME STATISTICS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE POINT OF THAT EXCHANGE IS THAT THERANOS WAS MAKING THE CLAIM THAT HUMAN INTERVENTION IN THE BLOOD TESTING PROCESS WAS A CAUSE OF INACCURACY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERANOS HOPED, THROUGH ITS BLOOD TESTING PROCESSES, TO ELIMINATE OR LIMIT HUMAN INVENTION IN THE BLOOD TESTING PROCESS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND GROW MARKETING IS ESSENTIALLY ASKING, WELL, HOW DO WE KNOW THAT HUMAN INVENTION IS THE SOURCE OF SO MANY ERRORS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MR. HOLMES IS PROVIDING THIS BACKGROUND ACADEMIC LITERATURE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10555.

DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE WERE -- OH, YES.

MR. DOWNEY: IT SHOULD BE THE NEXT EXHIBIT IN YOUR BINDER.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. IS THIS ANOTHER EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF THERANOS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF CHIAT/DAY ABOUT LAUNCHING THE THERANOS WEBSITE?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 10555.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10555 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND EMAIL ON THE FIRST PAGE, YOU SEE IT'S AN EMAIL FROM CHRISTIAN HOLMES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT HE'S, HE'S PROVIDING COMMENT ON SOME OF THE CONTENT FOR A WEBSITE OR THERANOS PUBLIC PRESENTATION?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE HE WRITES, "ANNIE -- FEW COMMENTS." DO YOU SEE THAT THERE?

MR. DOWNEY: AND UNDER WALGREENS -- W-A-G IS WALGREENS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HIS SECOND BULLET POINT REFERS TO A SLIDE 24. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE SAYS, "PLEASE CHANGE THIS TO 'MORE ACCURATE, MORE COMFORTABLE' (OR SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS). WE CAN DISCUSS THIS IN MORE DETAIL AFTER THE WALGREENS MEETING, BUT THE CORRECT STATIC IS THAT HUMAN ERROR ACCOUNTS FOR 93 PERCENT OF TESTING ERRORS, WHICH ARE ELIMINATED THROUGH THE THERANOS PLATFORM." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT'S A COMMENT ON THE SAME SUBJECT THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A MOMENT AGO?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU NOW TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 10558.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM MR. HOLMES, FROM CHRISTIAN HOLMES TO MIKE YAGI AT CHIAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU'RE COPIED ON THIS EMAIL?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS IS COMMENTING ON THE PREPARATION OF A BROCHURE THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE AT WALGREENS PATIENT SERVICE CENTERS AT WALGREENS STORES?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 10558.

MR. BOSTIC: NO OBJECTION.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED AND MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 10558 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU SEE IN THE EMAIL THAT CHRISTIAN HOLMES REPORTS TO MIKE YAGI AT CHIAT. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND I SAYS, "MIKE. "I HOPE YOU'RE DOING WELL. I JUST CAUGHT UP WITH ELIZABETH - SHE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH OUR REGULATORY FOLKS AND THEY WANT TO MAKE A FEW CHANGES ON THE BROCHURE FOR WALGREENS. THESE ARE RELATIVELY MINOR BUT WILL NEED TO IMPLEMENT THEM AS SOON AS WE CAN FOR THE ADDITIONAL PRINTING OF THE BROCHURE. HERE IS THE FEEDBACK." AND THEN HE GOES ON TO LIST THAT FEEDBACK. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN THE FIRST ITEM IS "THE BROCHURE DOES NOT DISCLOSE THAT A PRESCRIPTION IS NEEDED." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE SECOND IS THAT "IT SOUNDS AS IF THE PATIENT GETS THE RESULTS DIRECTLY RATHER THAN THROUGH THEIR DOCTORS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MS. HOLMES WAS CONVEYING THROUGH HER BROTHER THAT SHE WANTED THAT CHANGED TO BE CLEARER TO PATIENTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN THE THIRD ENTRY SAYS "ON THE 'ONE TINY DROP CHANGES EVERYTHING' PANEL, I WOULD SAY 'TINY' RATHER THAN 'THE TINIEST.'" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT IS A REFERENCE TO DEPICTIONS TO THE AMOUNT OF BLOOD THAT WOULD BE DRAWN AT THERANOS PATIENT SERVICE CENTERS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEN SHE SAYS, "ON 'ONE DROP A WORLD OF ANSWERS' PANEL, I ASSUME WE ARE NOT PROVIDING EVERY TEST THAT ANYONE MIGHT WANT. YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAY 'A FULL RANGE OF STANDARD/COMMON/MOST FREQUENT TESTS,' OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MS. HOLMES WAS CONVEYING THROUGH CHRISTIAN HOLMES THAT SHE THOUGHT THE PROSPECT OF SUGGESTING THAT THE COMPANY OFFERED EVERY TEST SHOULDN'T BE FEATURED IN THE BROCHURE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE FIFTH ITEM, THERE'S A COMMENT ON "'BETTER ANSWERS FASTER,'" AND SHE CONVEYS THROUGH MR. HOLMES THAT IT IS A TROUBLING HEADER BECAUSE IT CREATES AN UNDEFINED COMPARISON. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: SHE SAYS, "BETTER THAN WHAT? FASTER THAN WHAT?" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE LAST ITEM IS, SHE SAYS, "IF THERE ARE RISKS OR POPULATIONS WHO SHOULDN'T USE THIS SERVICE OR OTHER RISK-TYPE INFORMATION, WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT DISCLOSING IT." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME TALK ABOUT THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD YESTERDAY WITH MR. BOSTIC ABOUT ROGER PARLOFF. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND LET ME ASK YOU IF WE CAN DRAW UP EXHIBIT 1753, WHICH IS ALREADY IN EVIDENCE. DO YOU RECALL YESTERDAY THAT MR. BOSTIC SHOWED YOU A LIST OF ITEMS AND WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING FEEDBACK IN CONNECTION WITH THOSE ITEMS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND HE POINTED YOU TO A NUMBER OF ITEMS THAT MS. HOLMES WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING FOLLOWUP ON?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE WERE OTHER REQUESTS BY MR. PARLOFF THAT OTHERS AT THERANOS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING INFORMATION ON; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE OF EXHIBIT 1753, YOU RECALL THAT THIS IS YOUR EMAIL TO MS. HOLMES LISTING THE ACTION ITEMS WITH REGARD TO MR. PARLOFF?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THERE'S A LIST OF ITEMS, AND THEN THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE IS ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU SEE THAT WITH REGARD TO ITEMS 3 THROUGH 8, THERE WAS APPARENTLY A REQUEST OR A DISCUSSION FOR SEVERAL ISSUES RELATED TO THE SCIENCE OF THERANOS BLOOD TESTING. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU SEE THAT DR. YOUNG WAS LISTED AS THE RESPONSIBLE PARTY FOR GATHERING THAT INFORMATION?

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT PAGE, WHICH IS PAGE 2. WE CAN BLOW UP ITEMS 33 AND 34. DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS A REQUEST BY MR. PARLOFF TO SEE INFORMATION RELATED TO THERANOS'S INTELLECTUAL PORTFOLIO -- I MEAN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PORTFOLIO?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, THE IP TEAM WAS LISTED AS BEING RESPONSIBLE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THOSE ARE THE LAWYERS WHO PREPARED, FILED, AND DEFENDED PATENTS FOR THERANOS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU UNDERSTOOD WHEN YOU WERE AT THERANOS THAT THERANOS BELIEVED IT HAD A VERY VALUABLE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PORTFOLIO?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT HAVE ONE MOMENT? I'M PRETTY CLOSE TO DONE.

(DISCUSSION AMONGST DEFENSE COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.

MR. DOWNEY: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS?

MR. DOWNEY: (HANDING.)

JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: MR. EDLIN, I'VE PLACED IN FRONT OF YOU A BINDER OF ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS, BUT DON'T WORRY, I'M NOT GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT ALL OF THEM.

DANIEL EDLIN: THANK YOU.

MR. DOWNEY: I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 7476.

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECALL THAT THERANOS WOULD CONDUCT EXPERIENCE SURVEYS OF PATIENTS WHO USED ITS BLOOD TESTING SERVICES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL THAT PHLEBOTOMISTS IN THERANOS PATIENT SERVICE CENTERS WOULD ALSO INTERACT WITH PATIENTS FOR THEIR FEEDBACK ON PATIENT SERVICES?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THAT INFORMATION WAS THEN OFTEN AGGREGATED INTO REPORTS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THOSE REPORTS WERE SHARED WITH, AMONG OTHERS, WITH MS. HOLMES; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT WAS DONE ON A WEEKLY OR BIWEEKLY BASIS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF 7476.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

JUDGE DAVILA: THIS IS WHAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, I THINK.

MR. DOWNEY: THAT'S CORRECT, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION ON THIS. THE OBJECTION IS SUSTAINED.

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, ON THE SAME FOUNDATION, I WOULD HAVE MOVED TO ADMIT A SERIES OF ADDITIONAL EXHIBITS, WHICH I'LL JUST LIST FOR THE RECORD. EXHIBIT 7557, EXHIBIT 7561, EXHIBIT 7571, EXHIBIT 7573, EXHIBIT 7575, EXHIBIT 7576, EXHIBIT 7579, EXHIBIT 7583, AND EXHIBIT 7586.

MR. DOWNEY: MR. EDLIN, DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING YESTERDAY --

JUDGE DAVILA: I SHOULD PROBABLY RULE.

MR. DOWNEY: OH, I'M SORRY. I THOUGHT THAT WAS IMPLICIT. I HOPE I DO BETTER.

JUDGE DAVILA: WELL, YOU NEVER KNOW. I DID WANT TO LOOK AT THESE. WE DID TALK ABOUT THESE EARLIER. I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THEM. BUT IF YOU CAN REPRESENT TO ME THAT THESE CONTAIN THE COMMENTS THAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, THEN I WOULD SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION BASED ON 401 GROUNDS AND THE LIMITATION. IF THERE'S SOME WAY TO PARSE OUT THESE EXHIBITS IN THE MANNER THAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED, I'LL LOOK AT THEM, I'LL REVISIT THEM. BUT THE COLLECTIVE, I THINK, IS -- I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION.

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, IF THERE ARE PARTICULAR SEGMENTS OF THEM THAT WE THINK ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE COURT'S RULING, MAY WE CONSIDER THAT AN ADEQUATE FOUNDATION HAS BEEN LAID BY THIS WITNESS TO ADMIT THEM, ASSUMING THEY'RE NOT INADMISSIBLE ON SOME OF THE GROUNDS THAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER?

JUDGE DAVILA: SURE. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, YOU RAISING THOSE AGAIN, AND I'LL HEAR FROM MR. BOSTIC WHEN AND IF YOU DECIDE TO PUT THAT COLLECTIVE BACK. MR. BOSTIC, YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT.

MR. BOSTIC: UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. SO THE OBJECTION IS SUSTAINED.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING YESTERDAY, MR. EDLIN, ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH DR. ROBERTSON?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL AT THE END OF 2016 YOU PARTICIPATED WITH DR. ROBERTSON IN ASSEMBLING A TECHNOLOGY ADVISORY BOARD AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 7687.

DANIEL EDLIN: IS THAT IN THE MOST RECENT BINDER THAT YOU GAVE?

MR. DOWNEY: IT SHOULD BE IN THE BINDER THAT I GAVE YOU YESTERDAY. I THINK YOU CAN PUT ASIDE THE BINDER THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT.

DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU REPEAT THE NUMBER, PLEASE.

MR. DOWNEY: IS THIS AN EMAIL BETWEEN YOURSELF, DR. ROBERTSON AND MS. HOLMES AND OTHERS FROM DECEMBER OF 2016 RELATED TO A TECHNOLOGY ADVISORY BOARD AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHAT -- WHO WERE THE MEMBERS OF THE TECHNOLOGY ADVISORY BOARD AT THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I SEE HERE HOWIE ROSEN IS ANOTHER NAME. I DON'T REMEMBER THE OTHER NAMES SPECIFICALLY.

MR. DOWNEY: BUT THIS BOARD OF -- WAS DESIGNED TO BE A BOARD TO ADVISE THERANOS REGARDING ITS TECHNOLOGY AND HARDWARE? DO YOU RECALL THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IT CONSISTED OF A NUMBER OF EXPERT ENGINEERS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THEY WERE EXTERNAL TO THE COMPANY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DR. ROBERTSON WAS INVOLVED WITH IT BECAUSE HE HAD PARTICULAR EXPERTISE AS A CHEMICAL ENGINEER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 7687.

MR. BOSTIC: AS TO THIS TOPIC, 401, 403, ALSO BEYOND THE SCOPE.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S THE TWO-PAGE EMAIL?

JUDGE DAVILA: I'LL ADMIT IT -- OBJECTION IS OVERRULED -- AND IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 7687 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL, IN THE SECOND HALF OF PAGE 1 OF THIS EXHIBIT, YOU SEE THAT'S AN EMAIL FROM YOU TO DR. ROBERTSON AND OTHERS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU'RE APPRISING HIM OF WHAT MATERIALS MIGHT BE SHARED WITH THE TECHNOLOGY ADVISORY BOARD; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THIS LIST OF MATERIALS IS A LIST OF MATERIALS THAT DR. YOUNG HAD RECOMMENDED BE SHARED WITH THAT GROUP?

MR. DOWNEY: WE TALKED YESTERDAY ABOUT ASSAY DEVELOPMENT REPORTS AT THERANOS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU RECALL THAT THOSE REPORTS WERE STORED AT THERANOS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THAT THERE WERE FULL VERSIONS AND REDACTED VERSIONS?

MR. DOWNEY: DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WERE MORE THAN 300 ASSAY DEVELOPMENT REPORTS?

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I MIGHT BE DONE.

(DISCUSSION AMONGST DEFENSE COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)

MR. DOWNEY: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER ON CROSS-EXAMINATION.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. MR. BOSTIC, DO YOU HAVE REDIRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: I DO, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: MR. BOSTIC, WE'LL TAKE OUR AFTERNOON BREAK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HOUR.

MR. BOSTIC: UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. ///

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BOSTIC:

MR. BOSTIC: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. EDLIN.

DANIEL EDLIN: GOOD AFTERNOON.

MR. BOSTIC: I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON A CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD WITH MR. DOWNEY ABOUT THERANOS'S INVOLVEMENT WITH THE MILITARY. DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY?

MR. BOSTIC: ON DIRECT YOU TESTIFIED ABOUT WHETHER A THERANOS ANALYZER WAS EVER ACTUALLY USED BY THE MILITARY TO CONDUCT CLINICAL TESTING FOR SOLDIERS. DO YOU RECALL THAT QUESTION?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS YOUR ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DOES THAT REMAIN YOUR TESTIMONY?

MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO JUST CIRCLE BACK TO A COUPLE OF THE INDIVIDUAL ENGAGEMENTS. FIRST, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BURN STUDY THAT WAS CONDUCTED WITH MILITARY INVOLVEMENT. DO YOU RECALL THAT PARTICULAR ENGAGEMENT?

MR. BOSTIC: MS. KRATZMANN, IF I COULD USE THE OVERHEAD.

MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU EXHIBIT 7694, WHICH IS IN EVIDENCE.

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS AS THE ARTICLE THAT WAS THE RESULT OF THE STUDY THAT WAS CONDUCTED BY DR. CHUNG USING A THERANOS ANALYZER?

MR. BOSTIC: I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT A FEW DETAILS AND ASK YOUR THOUGHTS. FIRST, DO YOU SEE UNDER THE ABSTRACT THERE'S A SECTION LABELLED RESULTS?

MR. BOSTIC: IT SAYS THERE, "DURING A 4-YEAR PERIOD, A TOTAL OF NINE SUBJECTS WERE ENROLLED FOR THE INVENTION DURING THE RAMP-IN PHASE AND 28 SUBJECTS WERE RANDOMIZED, 14 EACH INTO THE CONTROL AND HVHF ARMS RESPECTIVELY. THE STUDY WAS TERMINATED DUE TO SLOW ENROLLMENT." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: IS THAT CONSISTENT WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT APPROXIMATELY 28 INDIVIDUALS PARTICIPATED IN THIS STUDY OVER A FOUR YEAR PERIOD?

MR. BOSTIC: IN THE SECTION ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS METHODS, IT TALKS ABOUT HOW THIS WAS A CLINICAL TRIAL TO EVALUATE THE IMPACT OF HVHF. DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TO REFER TO HIGH-VOLUME HEMOFILTRATION?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT SOUNDS RIGHT.

MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THIS STUDY DESIGNED TO TEST WHETHER THAT TREATMENT WAS BENEFICIAL TO BURN VICTIMS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT WAS.

MR. BOSTIC: WAS THAT HVHF TREATMENT DEVELOPED OR WORKED ON IN ANY WAY BY THERANOS?

DANIEL EDLIN: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

MR. BOSTIC: ON PAGE 2 OF THIS EXHIBIT UNDER RESULTS, DO YOU SEE THAT THERE'S A SECTION THAT BEGINS "ACROSS SEVEN PARTICIPATING BURN CENTERS"?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU KNOW OFFHAND WHAT THOSE SEVEN PARTICIPATING BURN CENTERS WERE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M -- I DON'T THINK I KNOW ALL SEVEN OFFHAND.

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE ALL MILITARY AFFILIATED OR WHETHER SOME WERE NONMILITARY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SOME WERE ACADEMIC, UNIVERSITY AND MEDICAL CENTERS.

MR. BOSTIC: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THE PARTICIPANTS IN THIS STUDY WERE NOT LIMITED TO SOLDIERS; IS THAT CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.

MR. BOSTIC: WE CAN PUT THAT ONE ASIDE. I'D NEXT LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE DEALINGS THAT THERANOS HAD WITH AFRICOM. DO YOU HAVE THAT IN YOUR MIND?

MR. BOSTIC: AND I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU WHAT WAS ADMITTED AS EXHIBIT 12251. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE EXHIBIT 12251 ON THE SCREEN?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THIS EMAIL WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: THIS EMAIL HAS AN ATTACHMENT; IS THAT CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU THE ACTUAL DRAFT PROTOCOL FOR THE AFRICOM STUDY?

MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU SOME INFORMATION ON THE SECOND PAGE OF THAT PROTOCOL. FIRST, DO YOU SEE UNDER STUDY DESIGN WHERE THERE'S A SECTION LABELLED "INTERVENTIONS"?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU SEE THERE HIGHLIGHTED THERE'S A SECTION LABELLED "STANDARD PHYSICAL EXAM TESTS ON 5 VOLUNTEERS"?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU SEE SPECIFIC ASSAYS LISTED UNDERNEATH THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THE ASSAYS ARE CBC, CHEMISTRY, LIVER PANEL, UA, AND LIPIDS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER -- WELL, LET ME ASK FIRST, WAS IT AN EDISON 3.0 THAT WAS GIVEN TO AFRICOM IN CONNECTION WITH THIS STUDY?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE EDISON 3.0 WAS EVEN CAPABLE OF CONDUCTING THE ASSAYS THAT ARE LISTED HERE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS CAPABLE OF CONDUCTING ALL OF THE ASSAYS.

MR. BOSTIC: GOING FURTHER DOWN IN THAT SAME PROTOCOL, I'D LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO SUBSECTION 3. DO YOU SEE SOME HIGHLIGHTED LANGUAGE THERE?

MR. BOSTIC: IT READS THERE, "MOCK PATIENT SCENARIO REQUIRING LABORATORY ASSESSMENT WITH SUBSEQUENT EVALUATION FOR CONFIRMATORY TESTING." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND I'LL MOVE DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE. DO YOU SEE AT THE BOTTOM, UNDER RISK TO SUBJECTS, THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE BEGINNING AT THE BOTTOM, "ALL CLINICAL DATA WILL BE NOTIONAL." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: IT READS, "ALL CLINICAL DATA WILL BE NOTIONAL DATA, CREATED AS A SCENARIO AND WILL NOT REPRESENT ANY TRUE CONDITION OF THE RESEARCH SUBJECT." DO YOU SEE THAT LANGUAGE?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT LANGUAGE MEANS?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE RESULTS FOR EACH PATIENT WERE PREDETERMINED. LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS SENT TO THERANOS WHAT THE RESULTS FOR EACH PATIENT SHOULD BE, AND THOSE WERE THE RESULTS FOR EACH PATIENT THAT APPEARED ON THE DEVICE.

MR. BOSTIC: AND DOES THAT MEAN THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AFRICOM STUDY, THE ANALYZER ITSELF WASN'T ACTUALLY ANALYZING BLOOD AND RETURNING RESULTS THAT WERE BEING USED?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT WASN'T RETURNING RESULTS THAT WERE BEING USED. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT WAS DONE ON THE DEVICE.

MR. BOSTIC: BECAUSE THE RESULTS IN THE STUDY WERE PREDETERMINED AND FICTIONAL; IS THAT CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THEY WERE -- I THINK THEY WERE DESCRIBED AS ARTIFICIAL.

MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU NEXT WHAT WAS ADMITTED AS 10483. AND THIS WAS ADMITTED PREVIOUSLY. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THIS EMAIL CHAIN WITH LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: LET ME FIRST SHOW YOU AN EMAIL IN THIS CHAIN. DO YOU SEE ON THE PAGE IN FRONT OF YOU AN EMAIL FROM LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS, OR A PORTION OF AN EMAIL?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU SEE IN THAT PORTION THERE'S HIGHLIGHTED LANGUAGE THAT SAYS, "FOR THE 5 PATIENTS WHO ARE JUST HAVING PHYSICAL EXAM TESTS - THESE CAN ALL BE NORMAL RESULTS. "I SPECIFIED VALUES FOR THE REMAINING PATIENTS. LET ME KNOW IF I NEED TO INCLUDE UNITS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: IS THIS LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS PROVIDING WHAT THE ARTIFICIAL RESULTS ARE TO BE TO THERANOS IN ADVANCE OF THE TEST?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL THAT IN THIS EMAIL YOU ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE CONDITIONS WOULD BE ON THE MEDEVAC FROM GERMANY TO UGANDA?

MR. BOSTIC: LET ME SHOW YOU THAT LANGUAGE. DO YOU SEE THAT ON THE SCREEN?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THIS IS IN CONNECTION WITH THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW THE DEVICE WAS GOING TO BE TRANSPORTED IN THE FIELD; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. BOSTIC: WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING WHEN YOU WROTE THAT EMAIL THAT THE DEVICE WAS GOING TO BE TRANSPORTED ON A MEDEVAC FROM GERMANY TO UGANDA?

DANIEL EDLIN: YES. OR I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS A MEDEVAC, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS A HELICOPTER.

MR. BOSTIC: ON THE SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU, DO YOU SEE LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS'S RESPONSE TO THAT QUESTION?

MR. BOSTIC: SHE RESPONDS IN THAT SECOND PARAGRAPH THERE, "THE EQUIPMENT AND CARTRIDGES WILL BE FLOWN COMMERCIAL AIR WITH ME ON THE 23RD, AND I WILL FLY BACK TO GERMANY ON THE 2ND OF JULY." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND SHE THEN IN THE PARAGRAPH BELOW -- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, DOES THIS INDICATE THAT THE DEVICE WAS NOT ACTUALLY TRANSPORTED ON A MEDEVAC FROM GERMANY TO UGANDA?

JUDGE DAVILA: I'M SORRY, MR. BOSTIC. WAS THIS ADMITTED?

MR. BOSTIC: IT WAS, YOUR HONOR. I BELIEVE SO, 10483.

JUDGE DAVILA: MS. KRATZMANN, DO YOU SHOW THAT?

COURT CLERK: I DON'T SHOW THAT, YOUR HONOR, AS ADMITTED. I WENT UP TO 10480.

MR. BOSTIC: I APOLOGIZE. IT MAY HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT VERSION OF THIS EMAIL. YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD MOVE TO ADMIT 10483 IF IT'S NOT.

JUDGE DAVILA: IT MAY HAVE COME IN ATTACHED TO SOMETHING ELSE. ANY OBJECTION TO THIS COMING IN, MR. DOWNEY?

MR. DOWNEY: WELL, MAYBE THE EASIEST THING IS THAT I COULD JUST GIVE THE NUMBER OF THE EXHIBIT THAT WAS ADMITTED IF YOU'LL BEAR WITH ME. IT'S 13993.

JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU.

MR. BOSTIC: APOLOGIES, YOUR HONOR. I'M HAPPY TO USE THAT VERSION. 13993?

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S THE SAME DOCUMENT AND IT JUST HAS A DIFFERENT NUMBER FOR EACH BINDER, EACH RESPECTIVE BINDER. BUT IT IS THE SAME DOCUMENT.

MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I GOT AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION. DO YOU RECALL WHETHER, IN FACT, THE DEVICE WAS TRANSPORTED COMMERCIALLY FROM GERMANY TO UGANDA AND NOT BY MEDEVAC?

DANIEL EDLIN: I WOULD JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT THE EMAIL IF YOU DON'T MIND.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

DANIEL EDLIN: YES, THAT'S WHAT IS INDICATED HERE, COMMERCIAL AIR.

BY MR. BOSTIC:

MR. BOSTIC: THERE'S DISCUSSION IN THAT SAME EMAIL --

JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S NOT ON THE SCREEN IN THE AUDIENCE. IT'S NOT ON THE JURY SCREEN?

JUROR: NO. IT'S COMING.

COURT CLERK: NO? YES?

JUROR: YES.

MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE SOMETHING ON THE SCREEN ABOUT HOW YOU IT WOULD BE FLYING FROM UGANDA AND HOW IT -- SURE. DO YOU SEE IN THE EMAIL LANGUAGE ABOUT FLYING THE EQUIPMENT FROM UGANDA AND HOW IT WOULD BE ON A NON-PRESSURIZED AIRCRAFT AT ALTITUDES LESS THAN 10,000 FEET?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL DURING DIRECT WE LOOKED AT SOME DOCUMENTS THAT DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY THAT A THERANOS ANALYSIS WOULD BE USED ON A MILITARY MEDEVAC?

MR. BOSTIC: AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN? WHAT THAT USE WOULD LOOK LIKE?

DANIEL EDLIN: THIS WOULD BE, LIKE, A HYPOTHETICAL. IN ORDER FOR THE DEVICE TO OPERATE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE INFLUENCED INTO A POWER SOURCE AND I THINK IT WOULD JUST, IT WOULD NEED TO HAVE A DESIGNATED LOCATION WITHIN THE VEHICLE, AND THAT WOULD LIKELY HAVE TO BE SECURED, STATIONARY.

MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU SAID IN ORDER FOR THE DEVICE TO OPERATE, IT WOULD NEED A POWER SOURCE?

MR. BOSTIC: THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. WHEN THAT POSSIBILITY WAS CONTEMPLATED BY THERANOS, WAS THAT REFERRING TO THE MERE TRANSPORT OF AN ANALYZER FROM ONE LOCATION TO ANOTHER ON A MILITARY PLANE? OR WAS IT THE ACTUAL OPERATION AND USE OF THE ANALYZER ON A MILITARY AIRCRAFT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE OPERATION AND USE.

MR. BOSTIC: SO THEN MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THE AFRICOM STUDY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, DID THAT HAPPEN? WAS A THERANOS ANALYZER ACTUALLY INSTALLED AND USED ON A MILITARY MEDEVAC?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL REVIEWING WITH MR. DOWNEY AN EMAIL FROM LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS WHERE SHE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE DEVICE HAD PERFORMED WELL?

MR. BOSTIC: JUST TO BE CLEAR, AS PART OF THE WORK THAT SHE DID WITH THE DEVICE, DID SHE ACTUALLY RUN ANY SAMPLES AND REVIEW THE RESULTS?

MR. BOSTIC: THAT SAME EMAIL TALKED ABOUT HER DESIRE TO GET SOME ADDITIONAL DEVICES INTO THE FIELD FOR MORE TESTING. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: DID THAT EVER HAPPEN? DID AFRICOM EVER GET THOSE ADDITIONAL DEVICES AND CONDUCT THE KIND OF TESTING THAT LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS WAS TALKING ABOUT?

MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE MORE TO TALK ABOUT ON THE MILITARY, BUT THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD STOPPING POINT IF THE COURT WANTS TO TAKE A BREAK.

JUDGE DAVILA: LET'S DO THAT. LET'S TAKE OUR AFTERNOON BREAK. I JUST WANT TO -- BEFORE WE TAKE OUR BREAK, I JUST WANT TO CLEAR THE RECORD, COUNSEL, FOR SOME DOCUMENTS. EXHIBIT 12251 WAS NOT ADMITTED. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANOTHER NUMBER FOR THAT. AND THEN 10483 IS -- I BELIEVE WE'VE -- THAT IS 13993. SO 13993 WAS ADMITTED WITH THE ATTACHMENTS, SO THAT IS IN THE RECORD. I THINK THE 10483 WAS ANOTHER COPY OF THE SAME EXHIBIT, BUT YOU JUST EXAMINED ON THAT. JUST TO BE CLEAR, 10483 WAS NOT ADMITTED, BUT THE SAME DOCUMENT APPEARS IN 13993, WHICH WAS ADMITTED. 12251 I DON'T BELIEVE WAS ADMITTED, AND I WILL JUST LEAVE THE RECORD AT THAT.

MR. BOSTIC: I'LL FIND THE CORRECT NUMBER FOR THAT ONE, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. LET'S TAKE OUR AFTERNOON BREAK. IS IT 30 MINUTES WOULD BE SUFFICIENT THEN? 30 MINUTES, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. AND YOU CAN STAND DOWN, SIR. THANK YOU.

(JURY OUT AT 1:33 P.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: PLEASE BE SEATED. WE'RE ON A BREAK. THANK YOU.

COURT CLERK: COURT IS IN RECESS.

(RECESS FROM 1:33 P.M. UNTIL 2:03 P.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD. WE'RE OUTSIDE OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY. BEFORE WE BRING THE JURY IN, I JUST WANTED TO ALERT THE PARTIES, I RECEIVED -- MS. KRATZMANN RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM ONE OF OUR JURORS REMINDING US OF A LACK OF AVAILABILITY. I THINK THIS CAME UP DURING VOIR DIRE, WON'T BE AVAILABLE FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 12TH AND FRIDAY, DECEMBER 3RD. AND I THINK, IF YOU RECALL, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT SOME WEDDINGS THAT A JUROR WAS INVOLVED IN.

MR. DOWNEY: I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

JUDGE DAVILA: RIGHT. HE WANTED TO REMIND US OF THAT. I MAY HAVE -- ALSO, I'LL NEED TO CHECK, BUT I HAVE A NINTH CIRCUIT COMMITTEE THAT I SIT ON, AND I THINK IT'S MEETING IN MAYBE THE SECOND WEEK OF DECEMBER. I'LL KEEP YOU APPRISED OF THAT, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO BE A TUESDAY/WEDNESDAY EVENT, BUT I'LL KEEP YOU APPRISED AS WE GO FORWARD. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE -- CAN I JUST GET A TIME ESTIMATE? DO YOU THINK WE'LL FINISH THIS WITNESS TODAY?

MR. BOSTIC: SO, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE APPROXIMATELY ANOTHER HALF HOUR WITH THIS WITNESS.

MR. DOWNEY: I THINK WE'LL FINISH THIS WITNESS, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: OKAY. GREAT. LET'S COLLECT EVERYONE.

(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)

(JURY IN AT 2:06 P.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD. OUR JURY IS PRESENT. ALL COUNSEL ARE PRESENT. MR. EDLIN IS ON THE STAND. MR. BOSTIC, YOU'D LIKE TO CONTINUE WITH YOUR REDIRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: YES, PLEASE, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU. FIRST, THE GOVERNMENT MOVES TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 12251. I BELIEVE THE DEFENSE HAS STIPULATED.

MR. DOWNEY: YES, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT IS ADMITTED. THANK YOU.

(DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 12251 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)

BY MR. BOSTIC:

MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, BEFORE THE BREAK WE TALKED ABOUT THE MILITARY BURN STUDY AND THE DEALINGS WITH AFRICOM; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S TALK ABOUT CENTCOM NEXT. I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU SOME SECTIONS OF EXHIBIT 10457, WHICH I BELIEVE IS ALREADY IN EVIDENCE. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE EXHIBIT 10457 IN FRONT OF YOU?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS EMAIL WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: THIS EMAIL FROM YOU TO MS. HOLMES ATTACHES SOMETHING NAMED THERANOS LOE PROTOCOL APPLICATION. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU THAT ATTACHMENT. OKAY. DO YOU SEE THAT ON THE SCREEN?

MR. BOSTIC: AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN IN GENERAL TERMS WHAT THIS IS?

DANIEL EDLIN: THIS IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT TO COMPARE THERANOS TESTING TO AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT AT THE -- AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT FOR THE MILITARY.

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THE OVERALL GOAL, AS YOU UNDERSTOOD IT, OF THIS LIMITED OBJECTIVE EXPERIMENT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE GOAL -- THIS EXPERIMENT WAS TO COMPARE THERANOS TESTING TO THE AVAILABLE, COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE TESTING.

MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THAT TO SEE WHETHER IT WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ACTUAL MILITARY CLINICAL USE?

MR. BOSTIC: I'M SHOWING YOU SECTION 3 OF THIS PROTOCOL THAT'S LABELED STUDY FACILITIES. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND UNDER A HEADING THAT SAYS, LIST ALL LOCATIONS WHERE STUDY PROCEDURES WILL BE PERFORMED, IT READS, "COMBINED JOINT THEATRE HOSPITAL, BAGRAM AIR FORCE BASE, AFGHANISTAN." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: IS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHERE THIS LOE WAS GOING TO TAKE PLACE?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING ABOUT A TRIP THAT YOU TOOK TO FLORIDA IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEALINGS WITH CENTCOM?

MR. BOSTIC: THAT TRIP TO FLORIDA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY WORK IN AFGHANISTAN, DID IT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT TRIP, I BELIEVE, WAS A PREREQUISITE TO THIS -- TO ENGAGE IN THIS STUDY. BUT THAT TRIP WAS SPECIFICALLY FOR SECURITY TESTING.

MR. BOSTIC: AND THE SECURITY TESTING THAT OCCURRED ON THAT TRIP, DID THAT INCORPORATE ANY BLOOD TESTING BY THE ANALYZER AT ALL?

MR. BOSTIC: THIS SAYS THAT THIS PARTICULAR STUDY WAS GOING TO TAKE PLACE IN AFGHANISTAN AT BAGRAM AIR FORCE BASE. TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WERE DEVICES EVER SENT TO BAGRAM AIR FORCE BASE IN AFGHANISTAN?

MR. BOSTIC: THE EXPERIMENT THAT IS COVERED BY THIS DOCUMENT, DID IT EVER ACTUALLY OCCUR ANYWHERE?

MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU SECTION 6 AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE. DO YOU SEE A SECTION THAT READS TARGET POPULATIONS?

MR. BOSTIC: AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS STUDY WAS GOING TO BE HAD IT OCCURRED. DO YOU SEE THERE'S A BOX CHECKED THAT SAYS, "OTHER: PREEXISTING DE-IDENTIFIED LABORATORY SAMPLES"?

MR. BOSTIC: I'M NOW SHOWING YOU A SECTION OF THE DOCUMENT MARKED PROTOCOL. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND IN THAT SECTION, THERE'S A HEADING, RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU SEE A BULLET WHERE IT SAYS, "TWO THERANOS DEVICES WILL BE SENT FROM THE U.S. TO THE CJTH BAGRAM LABORATORY"?

MR. BOSTIC: DID THAT EVER HAPPEN?

MR. BOSTIC: IT TALKS ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN NEXT. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: I'M SHOWING YOU SOME MORE BULLET POINTS THAT ARE PART OF THAT PROTOCOL. DO YOU SEE UNDER A SECTION MARKED SAMPLE CHARACTERISTICS, THERE'S A DESCRIPTION OF SUBJECTS?

MR. BOSTIC: AND IT SAYS, "SAMPLES WILL BE SELECTED FROM PRE-EXISTING, LEFTOVER LABORATORY SPECIMENS OF ACTIVE DUTY U.S. SERVICE MEMBERS." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND IT SAYS THE SAMPLES WILL BE DE-IDENTIFIED PRIOR TO TESTING?

MR. BOSTIC: IT SAYS, "THESE WILL BE SELECTED FROM LEFTOVER SAMPLES FROM PHYSICIAN ORDERED LABORATORY TESTS THAT ARE COLLECTED DURING THE EXECUTION OF THE PROTOCOL." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: SO HAD THIS EXPERIMENT TAKEN PLACE, WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN ANY WAY FOR THE RESULTS OF THE THERANOS BLOOD TESTS TO ACTUALLY BE USED IN THE TREATMENT OF SOLDIERS?

MR. BOSTIC: WHY NOT?

DANIEL EDLIN: BECAUSE THESE WERE LEFTOVER SPECIMENS AND THEY WERE DEIDENTIFIED.

MR. BOSTIC: IN OTHER WORDS, THERE WAS NO WAY TO MATCH A GIVEN SAMPLE EVEN WITH THE PATIENT THAT IT WENT WITH?

MR. BOSTIC: JUST TO UNDERSCORE THAT POINT. DO YOU SEE A SUBSECTION LABELLED E ON THE SCREEN?

MR. BOSTIC: IT SAYS, "THE INDIVIDUALS CARING FOR THE PATIENTS WILL BE DIFFERENT FROM AND DO NOT SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PATIENT WITH THOSE CONDUCTING THE INVESTIGATION." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THE DOCTORS TREATING THE PATIENTS WOULD BE A DIFFERENT GROUP OF PEOPLE FROM THE ONES RUNNING THIS EXPERIMENT IF IT HAD TAKEN PLACE?

MR. BOSTIC: WAS SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THIS STUDY THAT NEVER TOOK PLACE A PREREQUISITE TO ACTUAL CLINICAL USE OF THE DEVICE BY CENTCOM?

MR. BOSTIC: NEXT, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOCOM. DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THE MILITARY'S -- I'M SORRY, WITH THERANOS'S DEALINGS WITH SOCOM, DEVICES WERE SHIPPED TO A BASE IN KENTUCKY? WAS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?

MR. BOSTIC: THE DEVICES THAT WERE SHIPPED TO KENTUCKY, WERE THEY CAPABLE OF RUNNING A CBC BLOOD TEST?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE MILITARY EVER ACTUALLY RAN TESTS ON THE DEVICES THAT WERE SENT TO KENTUCKY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DID.

MR. BOSTIC: THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ALSO WITH MR. DOWNEY ABOUT CLAIMS THAT WERE MADE IN THERANOS MEMOS AND PRESENTATIONS TO THE MILITARY. DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY?

MR. BOSTIC: YOU TESTIFIED THAT YOU BELIEVED THE CLAIMS IN THOSE PRESENTATIONS AND MEMORANDA WERE TRUE AT THE TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THAT BELIEF BASED ON?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT WAS -- THAT BELIEF WAS BASED ON WHAT I WAS TOLD BY THE EXPERTS IN THE COMPANY.

MR. BOSTIC: AND DID THOSE EXPERTS INCLUDE ELIZABETH HOLMES?

MR. BOSTIC: YOU SPOKE WITH MR. DOWNEY ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE COMPANY THAT YOU RELIED UPON FOR INFORMATION THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW FIRSTHAND. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS MS. HOLMES ON THAT LIST OF PEOPLE WHO PROVIDED YOU WITH INFORMATION?

MR. BOSTIC: WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION DID YOU RECEIVE FROM MS. HOLMES, GENERALLY SPEAKING?

DANIEL EDLIN: COULD YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC?

MR. BOSTIC: DID MS. HOLMES EVER PROVIDE YOU WITH INFORMATION ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY BEING USED BY THERANOS?

MR. BOSTIC: DID MS. HOLMES PROVIDE YOU WITH INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE DEVICES COULD DO AT THERANOS?

MR. BOSTIC: BETWEEN MS. HOLMES AND MR. BALWANI, DID YOU GET A SENSE OF HOW THEY DIVIDED THEIR AREAS OF EXPERTISE OR INFLUENCE WITHIN THE COMPANY? DID YOU HAVE A SENSE OF THAT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I HAD A, I THINK A GENERAL SENSE.

MR. BOSTIC: HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE HOW THEY BROKE THAT DOWN?

DANIEL EDLIN: SUNNY, SUNNY'S AREAS OF EXPERTISE WERE SOFTWARE, THE CLINICAL LAB, MOST OF THE WALGREENS OPERATION. AND ELIZABETH, I BELIEVE, FOCUSSED MORE ON THE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, THE R&D, IN ADDITION TO MARKETING, COMMUNICATIONS AS -- ALONG WITH MANY OTHER AREAS.

MR. BOSTIC: MR. DOWNEY ASKED YOU ABOUT A PATENT WHERE YOU WERE ACTUALLY NAMED AS AN INVENTOR. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: IS MS. HOLMES NAMED AS AN INVENTOR ON ANY PATENTS AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?

MR. BOSTIC: MULTIPLE PATENTS?

MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT DEMOS WITH YOU SOME MORE. DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THAT TOPIC WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: YOU WERE ASKED ABOUT THE NULL PROTOCOL. TO BE CLEAR, AT ANY TIME WHEN YOU WERE AT THERANOS, WAS IT YOUR INTENTION TO MISLEAD SOMEONE?

MR. BOSTIC: YOU WERE ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THE NULL PROTOCOL. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: WERE YOU INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE NULL PROTOCOL?

MR. BOSTIC: WAS IT YOUR DECISION THAT THE NULL PROTOCOL BE DEVELOPED AT THERANOS?

MR. BOSTIC: WAS IT YOUR DECISION -- LET'S SEE. LET ME ASK, WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT WHETHER THERE WAS AN INTENT TO DECEIVE ANYONE, WERE YOU SPEAKING JUST ABOUT YOUR INTENT OR WERE YOU MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT ANYONE ELSE AT THE COMPANY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I WAS SPEAKING ABOUT BOTH MY INTENT AND ASSUMPTIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE'S INTENT.

MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S INTENT, THOUGH, DO YOU HAVE A WAY TO READ THEIR MIND AND KNOW WHAT THEIR INTENT WAS, OR ARE THOSE JUST ASSUMPTIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: ASSUMPTIONS.

MR. BOSTIC: IN ADDITION TO THE NULL PROTOCOL, WE SPOKE DURING YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION ABOUT THE DEMO APP. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND IN SHORT, WHAT DID THE DEMO APP DO?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE DEMO APP INCLUDED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS THAT COULD EITHER TEST FOR SAMPLES ON A CARTRIDGE OR NOT TEST FOR SAMPLES ON A CARTRIDGE.

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS SPECIAL ABOUT THE DEMO APP AS OPPOSED TO THE NORMAL SOFTWARE THAT WAS RUNNING WHEN THE ANALYZER WAS RUNNING SAMPLES?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE DEMO APP, AS DISCUSSED IN THE EARLIER TESTIMONY, IT SHIELDED ERRORS FROM THE VIEWER.

MR. BOSTIC: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, IF AN ERROR OCCURRED DURING A TEST RUN, IT WOULD NOT BE APPARENT TO ANYONE WATCHING THE DEVICE; IS THAT TRUE?

MR. BOSTIC: WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE REASON WHY THE DEMO APP WAS CREATED?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE DEMO APP -- I RECALL THAT THE DEMO APP WAS CREATED TO ACCOUNT FOR A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAPPEN DURING A TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION, AND AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, IF A VISITOR OR A VIP DID NOT WANT TO DO A BLOOD TEST, OR SIMPLY THE HARDWARE OF THE TECHNOLOGY WAS BEING DEMONSTRATED, THE DEMO APP WOULD NOT SHOW, LET'S SAY, AN ERROR IF AN ERROR HAD NOT, IN FACT, TAKEN PLACE BASED ON THE, ON THE INTENT OF WHAT THE PERSON SHOWING IT WAS TRYING TO CONVEY.

MR. BOSTIC: SO THE DEMO APP WAS INTENDED FOR USE SPECIFICALLY IN CONNECTION WITH TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS AS FAR AS YOU KNEW?

MR. BOSTIC: THE MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING WHERE THE VIP'S WOULD COME TO A CONFERENCE ROOM AT THERANOS FOR THE BEGINNING OF THESE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS, WERE YOU GENERALLY PRESENT FOR THOSE ENTIRE MEETINGS?

DANIEL EDLIN: UM, IT VARIED.

MR. BOSTIC: GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT PORTIONS OF THE MEETINGS WOULD YOU BE PRESENT FOR?

DANIEL EDLIN: IT DEPENDED ON THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE MEETING. IN SOME INSTANCES THERE COULD BE A SHORT MEETING AND SOME INSTANCE WHERE THERE WAS JUST AN HOUR LONG MEETING AND THERE'S A DEMONSTRATION, AND THAT WAS IT. AND OTHER TIMES THERE WERE MULTI-HOUR LONG MEETINGS WITH, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT SESSIONS, AND I WOULD ATTEND ONE OF THOSE SESSIONS AND THE DEMO. IN SOME CASES I ONLY ATTENDED ONE OF THOSE PARTS.

MR. BOSTIC: WERE THERE MEETINGS BETWEEN MS. HOLMES AND INVESTORS WHERE YOU WERE NOT PRESENT FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THE MEETING?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU HAVE ANY FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING THAT MS. HOLMES MIGHT HAVE SAID TO THOSE INVESTORS DURING THE PORTIONS OF THE MEETINGS WHERE YOU WEREN'T PRESENT?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT EXHIBIT 905, WHICH IS IN EVIDENCE. MS. HOLLIMAN, COULD WE PROJECT THIS. OKAY. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THIS EMAIL CHAIN WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL, IN CONNECTION WITH THIS EMAIL, THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER ONE OF THE SUBJECTS HAD BEEN FASTING OR NOT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL THERE WAS AN EMAIL WHERE MS. HOLMES SAID THAT IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO FLAG THAT INFORMATION IN THE TEST?

MR. BOSTIC: I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT PAGE 4 OF THIS EXHIBIT. AND LET'S ZOOM IN ON THE BOTTOM. AND TOWARDS THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN DO YOU SEE THAT THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION ABOUT REMOVING CERTAIN RESULTS FROM THIS DEMO?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU SEE THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, FOR SUBJECT M5, DANIEL YOUNG WAS RECOMMENDING REMOVING THE OUT OF RANGE RESULTS FOR ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE AND CHLORIDE?

MR. BOSTIC: AND LET'S LOOK AT THE NEXT PAGE, PAGE 5. DO YOU SEE HERE THERE IS SOME MORE LANGUAGE ABOUT WHETHER THE TSH VALUES FOR THREE OF THE SUBJECTS WERE RUNNING LOW, AND THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION THAT ALL THREE OF THOSE RESULTS BE REMOVED?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S ZOOM IN ON THE BOTTOM HALF OF THIS PAGE. AND, MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE HERE AN EMAIL FROM YOU REPORTING THAT OTHER RESULTS HAD BEEN REMOVED FROM THESE REPORTS, INCLUDING CREATININE, VITAMIN D, TT4, TT3, AND FT4?

MR. BOSTIC: AND MS. HOLMES WAS ON ALL OF THESE EMAILS RELATING TO THE REMOVAL OF RESULTS FROM THE DEMO REPORTS; CORRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S LOOK AT EXHIBIT 860 AGAIN BRIEFLY. THAT'S IN EVIDENCE. MS. HOLLIMAN, IF WE COULD DISPLAY THAT. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THIS EMAIL CHAIN AND THIS DEMO WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL THAT IN CONNECTION WITH THIS DEMONSTRATION, THERE WERE INCONSISTENT RESULTS OBTAINED EVEN THOUGH THE SAME PATIENT GAVE A SAMPLE THAT WAS RUN ON THE SAME THERANOS ANALYZER?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL THAT IN THIS CASE SOME OF THOSE RESULTS WERE REPORTED AND OTHERS WERE NOT?

MR. BOSTIC: IN THIS CASE WERE THE CONFLICTING RESULTS, THE INCONSISTENT RESULTS, ACTUALLY REPORTED BACK TO THE SUBJECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE JUST ONE RESULT WAS REPORTED BACK.

MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. YOU TESTIFIED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION ABOUT THE PURPOSE, AS YOU UNDERSTOOD IT, OF THE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: YOU SAID THAT THE PURPOSE WAS NOT FOR CLINICAL USE. WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING?

MR. BOSTIC: WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: THE PURPOSE WAS TO SHOWCASE OR DEMONSTRATE THE THERANOS TECHNOLOGY. IN SOME CASES, TESTS WERE RUN; IN SOME CASES, OTHERS WEREN'T RUN. AND THEN GENERALLY TO SHOW THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THERANOS'S TECHNOLOGY.

MR. BOSTIC: WAS PART OF THAT A DESIRE TO SHOW THAT THE TECHNOLOGY PERFORMED WELL?

MR. BOSTIC: IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEMO APP THAT WOULD HIDE ERRORS, HOW IS THE PURPOSE OF SHOWING HOW WELL THE TECHNOLOGY WORKS SERVED BY HIDING RECORDS DURING A DEMO, IF YOU KNOW?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW.

MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT THE PRACTICE OF WITHHOLDING INDIVIDUAL RESULTS FROM DEMO REPORTS? HOW IS THE GOAL OF SHOWING HOW WELL THE TECHNOLOGY WORKS SERVED BY WITHHOLDING RESULTS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW.

MR. BOSTIC: FINALLY, HOW ABOUT WHEN THERE ARE INCONSISTENT RESULTS AND THE RESULTS DON'T MATCH THE WAY THEY SHOULD, HOW IS THAT GOAL OF SHOWING HOW WELL THE TECHNOLOGY WORKS SERVED BY NOT DISCLOSING THOSE INCONSISTENCIES?

DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, I THINK IT RELIES ON THE INTERPRETATION BY EXPERTS IN THE COMPANY FOR CERTAIN OF RESULTS. SO THAT IS, THAT IS PART OF THE PROCESS OF DEMONSTRATING THE TECHNOLOGY.

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU THINK THAT SOMEONE WHO WAS THE AUDIENCE FOR ONE OF THESE DEMONSTRATIONS MIGHT HAVE WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT INCONSISTENT RESULTS THAT CAME BACK DURING USE OF THE THERANOS TECHNOLOGY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I PERSONALLY DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEM.

MR. BOSTIC: THE CASES THAT WE LOOKED AT WHERE RESULTS WERE REMOVED FROM DEMO REPORTS, WAS IT EVER YOUR DISCUSSION TO REMOVE THOSE RESULTS?

MR. BOSTIC: WHEN THERE WERE INCONSISTENCIES AND SOME CONFLICTING RESULTS WEREN'T REPORTED, WAS THAT YOUR DECISION?

MR. BOSTIC: WHO HAD FINAL SAY OVER WHAT RESULTS WERE REPORTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE DEMO?

DANIEL EDLIN: DANIEL DID AND ELIZABETH DID.

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S SHIFT GEARS AND TALK ABOUT THERANOS'S FDA APPROVAL FOR HSV. DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL THE DATE WHEN THAT APPROVAL CAME THROUGH?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT WAS JULY OF 2015.

MR. BOSTIC: WAS THAT THERANOS'S FIRST FDA APPROVAL FOR ONE OF ITS ASSAYS AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. I RECALL IT WAS THE FIRST FDA APPROVAL FOR THE THERANOS SYSTEM.

MR. BOSTIC: ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY FDA APPROVALS FOR THERANOS SPECIFIC TESTS BEFORE JULY 2015?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T -- NOT THAT I RECALL.

MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT AFTER THE HSV APPROVAL? ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY OTHER ASSAYS THAT WERE THERANOS SPECIFIC THAT THE FDA APPROVED?

MR. BOSTIC: WHAT IS THE HSV ASSAY?

DANIEL EDLIN: A HERPES TEST.

MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THE FDA'S APPROVAL, AS YOU UNDERSTOOD IT, LIMITED TO THAT ONE ASSAY?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S LOOK AT EXHIBIT 7365. MS. KRATZMANN, IF I COULD USE THE OVERHEAD AGAIN. I BELIEVE THIS IS ADMITTED, 7365.

COURT CLERK: YES.

BY MR. BOSTIC:

MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, DO YOU RECALL DISCUSSING THIS EMAIL CHAIN WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THIS EMAIL CHAIN DEALT WITH LANGUAGE ON THE WEBSITE ABOUT VENOUS DRAWS; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SEE AN EMAIL FROM MS. HOLMES ON NOVEMBER 27TH, 2013?

MR. BOSTIC: AND IN THIS EMAIL, I'D LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE LANGUAGE THAT SHE IS SUGGESTING FOR THE WEBSITE. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND IT SAYS, "INSTEAD OF A BIG, INTIMIDATING NEEDLE, OUR CERTIFIED PHLEBOTOMISTS CAN USE A TINY FINGER STICK OR A MICRO-SAMPLE FROM A VENOUS DRAW. OCCASIONALLY, A VENIPUNCTURE MAY BE REQUIRED BASED ON THE LAB ORDER, BUT THIS IS UNCOMMON, AND OUR AIM IS TO ELIMINATE THAT SCENARIO ENTIRELY." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AS PART OF YOUR WORK ON THE WALGREENS PROJECT, DID YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW COMMON IT WAS FOR PATIENTS TO GET A VEIN DRAW INSTEAD OF A FINGERSTICK?

DANIEL EDLIN: NOT EXACTLY.

MR. BOSTIC: WOULD YOU BE SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT APPROXIMATELY 40 PERCENT OF WALGREENS'S PATIENTS GOT VEIN DRAWS?

MR. BOSTIC: IF SOMETHING HAPPENS 40 PERCENT OF THE TIME, WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THAT AS SOMETHING THAT IS UNCOMMON?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S LOOK NEXT AT EXHIBIT 10468. I BELIEVE THAT'S IN EVIDENCE. OKAY. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE 10468 ON THE SCREEN?

MR. BOSTIC: THIS WAS A SITUATION WHERE MS. HOLMES WAS WEIGHING IN ON CONTENT FOR THE WEBSITE; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. BOSTIC: WAS THIS TO BE THERANOS'S PUBLIC WEBSITE THAT WAS VIEWABLE BY ANYONE?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DID THE COMPANY HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE GOING TO BE VIEWING THE WEBSITE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M SURE THE BACK END DEVELOPERS COULD DETERMINE THAT.

MR. BOSTIC: WOULD YOU ANTICIPATE THAT IT WOULD BE IN THE MANY THOUSANDS AT LEAST?

DANIEL EDLIN: POTENTIALLY.

MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL A DISCUSSION DURING DIRECT AND SOME DOCUMENTS THAT WE LOOKED AT RELATING TO CLAIMS ABOUT SUPERIOR ACCURACY IN THE WEBSITE LANGUAGE?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL MS. HOLMES SAYING IN CONNECTION WITH THAT THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE SUPERIOR ACCURACY CLAIMS ON THE WEBSITE?

DANIEL EDLIN: THERE WAS SOME NUANCE. I THINK THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT UNRIVALLED ACCURACY AND A COMMENT ABOUT THE IMPROPER COMPARISON.

MR. BOSTIC: TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, DID CLAIMS ABOUT UNRIVALLED OR SUPERIOR ACCURACY END UP APPEARING ON THE THERANOS PUBLIC WEBSITE?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE THEY DID.

MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT IN THE INVESTOR PRESENTATIONS? DO YOU RECALL REVIEWING A PRESENTATION THAT WAS SENT TO RUPERT MURDOCH?

MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL SEEING THE LANGUAGE ABOUT THERANOS'S ACCURACY AND THE CLAIMS THAT THAT PRESENTATION CONTAINED?

MR. BOSTIC: THE INVESTOR PRESENTATIONS, WHAT WAS THE AUDIENCE FOR THOSE? HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE EXPECTED TO VIEW THEM?

DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK THEY WERE MEANT FOR INDIVIDUALS.

MR. BOSTIC: DID THERANOS REQUEST THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS NOT SHARE THOSE PRESENTATIONS WITH OTHERS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS COMMENTARY THAT THE INFORMATION WAS CONSIDERED CONFIDENTIAL.

MR. BOSTIC: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THOSE INVESTOR PRESENTATIONS WERE NOT FOR WIDE DISSEMINATION TO THE PUBLIC; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: LET'S LOOK AT 10558, WHICH I BELIEVE IS IN EVIDENCE. I'LL CIRCLE BACK TO THAT ONE WHEN I CAN FIND IT. DO YOU RECALL A DISCUSSION WITH MR. DOWNEY ABOUT THE CONTENT OF THE INVESTOR PRESENTATIONS?

MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU TALKED ABOUT WHERE THAT CONTENT CAME FROM. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU SAID THAT SOME OF THE CONTENT IN THOSE PRESENTATIONS WERE SOURCED FROM VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS IN THE COMPANY?

MR. BOSTIC: DID YOU HAVE THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY OF DOING THE FINAL REVIEW OF THOSE PRESENTATIONS AND MAKING SURE THAT EACH CLAIM WAS ACCURATE?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO DID THE FINAL REVIEW OF THOSE PRESENTATIONS?

DANIEL EDLIN: ELIZABETH.

MR. BOSTIC: LET ME SHOW YOU -- ACTUALLY, LET ME ASK YOU, DO YOU RECALL WITH MR. DOWNEY REVIEWING A DOCUMENT WHERE MS. HOLMES CONVEYED INPUT ON WEBSITE LANGUAGE AFTER A CONVERSATION WITH REGULATORY?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO WOULD THAT REFER TO? WHO WAS REGULATORY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW WHO SPECIFICALLY THAT REFERRED TO. THERANOS DID HAVE IN-HOUSE COUNSEL, AND I BELIEVE EXTERNAL COUNSEL THAT ADVISED ON THOSE TYPES OF MATTERS.

MR. BOSTIC: SO, IN OTHER WORDS, MS. HOLMES'S DIRECTION ON THE WEBSITE CONTENT WAS FOLLOWING A CONVERSATION THAT SHE HAD HAD WITH LAWYERS; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. BOSTIC: WAS IT -- TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WAS IT PART OF THE USUAL WORK WITH INVESTOR PRESENTATIONS THAT EACH INVESTOR PRESENTATION WOULD BE REVIEWED BY LAWYERS?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT AWARE THAT THAT HAPPENED.

MR. BOSTIC: LET ME SHOW YOU NEXT EXHIBIT 13979. I BELIEVE THIS IS IN EVIDENCE. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU REMEMBER REVIEWING EXHIBIT 13979 WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU TESTIFIED THAT THE ATTACHED SLIDE PRESENTATION WAS IN CONNECTION WITH MEDIA TRAINING THAT MS. HOLMES RECEIVED; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT A SLIDE THAT MR. DOWNEY DIDN'T SHOW YOU. DO YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU A SLIDE IN THIS MEDIA TRAINING PRESENTATION TITLED MASTER BLOCKING AND BRIDGING?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THE CONTENT HERE SAYS, "BLOCKING IS DEFTLY AVOIDING AN UNWELCOME OR UNPRODUCTIVE QUESTION." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND BELOW THAT IT SAYS, "BRIDGING IS TAKING THE DISCUSSION FROM UNPRODUCTIVE TO PRODUCTIVE TERRITORY AND GETTING BACK TO WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: THIS PRESENTATION CONTINUES ON THIS SAME TOPIC ON THE NEXT SLIDE. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THE QUESTION IS, "WHAT IS AN UNWELCOME QUESTION?" AND THE LIST SAYS, "NEEDLESSLY CONTROVERSIAL." THE SECOND ITEM, "ASKS ABOUT SOMETHING YOU CANNOT OR DO NOT WISH TO DISCLOSE." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THEN THE NEXT SLIDE ON THE SAME TOPIC SAYS, "HOW DO YOU BLOCK AND BRIDGE?" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: IT READS, "EITHER EXPLAIN WHY YOU CAN'T ANSWER OR RESPOND TO THE DIRECT QUESTION QUICKLY AND MOVE ON." IT SAYS, "AVOID 'NO COMMENT.'" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THE NEXT IS, "REFRAME THE QUESTION TO ONE YOU'D PREFER TO ANSWER AND BRIDGE TO IT." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND AT THE BOTTOM IT SAYS, "ONLY BLOCK A QUESTION WHEN THERE IS GOOD REASON TO DO SO." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU WERE PRESENT AT THIS MEDIA TRAINING; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. BOSTIC: AND THIS WAS PUT ON BY AN AGENCY CALLED GROW MARKETING; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. BOSTIC: DURING THAT TRAINING, DID THE INDIVIDUALS FROM GROW GIVE MS. HOLMES DIRECTION ON WHICH TOPICS TO USE THIS TECHNIQUE ON?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T REMEMBER.

MR. BOSTIC: GENERALLY SPEAKING AT THERANOS, WHOSE DECISION WAS IT WHAT INFORMATION WOULD BE DISCLOSED TO THE PUBLIC OR THE PRESS?

DANIEL EDLIN: IN MY EXPERIENCE, ELIZABETH WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO COMMUNICATED DIRECTLY WITH THE PRESS, SO --

MR. BOSTIC: AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, DID ANYONE ELSE MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT SHE WAS ALLOWED TO SAY TO THE PRESS AND WHAT SHE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SAY?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW IF SHE CONSULTED WITH ANYONE ABOUT THAT, THAT -- THOSE DECISIONS.

MR. BOSTIC: A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

(DISCUSSION AMONGST GOVERNMENT COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)

BY MR. BOSTIC:

MR. BOSTIC: FINALLY, MR. EDLIN, THERE WAS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT ACTIVITIES AT THE COMPANY IN 2016. DO YOU REMEMBER DISCUSSING THAT WITH MR. DOWNEY?

MR. BOSTIC: REMIND US WHEN YOU DECIDED TO LEAVE THERANOS.

DANIEL EDLIN: DECEMBER OF 2016.

MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU MENTIONED THAT PART OF YOUR REASON TO LEAVE WAS ABOUT THE DESIRE TO ATTEND BUSINESS SCHOOL?

MR. BOSTIC: AND WERE THERE ALSO THINGS ABOUT THERANOS, OR THINGS THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD, THAT CAUSED YOU TO NO LONGER WANT TO WORK THERE?

MR. BOSTIC: CAN YOU SUMMARIZE THOSE FOR US?

DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, IN THE YEAR AFTER THE INITIAL "WALL STREET JOURNAL" ARTICLES CAME OUT, THE COMPANY CLAIMED THAT IT WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVE THAT THE TECHNOLOGY WORKED AND PROVE THAT THOSE CLAIMS WERE NOT TRUE, AND THE COMPANY WAS UNABLE TO CONVINCE ANYONE THAT THOSE CLAIMS WERE UNTRUE AND THAT ITS TECHNOLOGY AND SCIENCE WORKED, AND THAT GAVE ME SERIOUS DOUBTS AS TO WHETHER THE COMPANY WAS CAPABLE OF PROVING THAT THE TECHNOLOGY WORKED. AND THERE WERE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES THAT THE COMPANY HAD TO PROVE ITSELF, AND THEY ALL WERE UNSUCCESSFUL. AND I ULTIMATELY REACHED THE CONCLUSION THAT THOSE ATTEMPTS WERE UNSUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T HAPPEN AND THEY WERE NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU, MR. EDLIN. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: MR. DOWNEY.

MR. DOWNEY: JUST SOME BRIEF QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: MR. EDLIN, I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. FIRST, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR EXCHANGE WITH MR. BOSTIC ON THE AFRICOM SITUATION. DO YOU RECALL MR. BOSTIC ASKING YOU ABOUT THE GENERATION OF ARTIFICIAL DATA IN CONNECTION WITH THAT PROGRAM?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE DECISION TO HAVE THE DATA GENERATED BE ARTIFICIAL WAS A DECISION OF DR. GIVENS; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE IT WAS A JOINT DECISION.

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU RECALL OUR DISCUSSION ON CROSS-EXAMINATION, DR. GIVENS CONTACTED THERANOS IN LATE APRIL 2012 TO TALK ABOUT A POTENTIAL PROGRAM; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND BY EARLY JUNE, YOU AND DR. GIVENS WERE EXCHANGING EMAILS ABOUT THAT EXPERIMENT; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND LATER THAT MONTH, A THERANOS DEVICE WAS SENT TO DR. GIVENS IN AFRICA TO CONDUCT THAT EXPERIMENT; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHEN IT WAS SENT.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO JUST LOOK AT THE EXHIBIT THAT IS MARKED AS 13993, WHICH WE WERE LOOKING AT ON YOUR REDIRECT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL ON THE BOTTOM OF THE FIRST PAGE, DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT YOU WERE SETTING UP THE THERANOS DEMONSTRATION IN EARLY JUNE?

MR. DOWNEY: SO THAT WAS JUST ABOUT 45 DAYS LATER AFTER YOU HAD INITIATED THESE CONVERSATIONS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND ONE OF THE THOUGHTS THAT THERANOS AND DR. GIVENS HAD AS TO WHY THE DATA WOULD BE ARTIFICIAL WAS TO AVOID THE COMPLICATED APPROVAL REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD BE IMPOSED ON THE EXPERIMENT IF HUMAN SAMPLES WERE INVOLVED; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE EMAIL THAT MR. BOSTIC SHOWED YOU THAT IS THE CARRY-OVER EMAIL FROM PAGE 1 TO 2. IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR EMAIL -- SORRY, DR. GIVENS'S EMAIL TO YOU, SHE'S PROVIDING SOME DETAIL TO YOU ABOUT TRANSPORT OF THE EQUIPMENT AND SO FORTH. DO YOU SEE THAT? DO YOU RECALL THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE EMAIL ON THE SECOND PAGE FROM YOU TO DR. GIVENS, SHE'S RESPONDING IN THAT FIRST EMAIL TO QUESTIONS YOU ASKED ABOUT HOW THE EQUIPMENT WOULD BE TRANSPORTED. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IF YOU GO ALMOST ALL OF THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM OF YOUR EMAIL, THE SECOND TO THE LAST BULLET POINT SAYS, "HOW WILL THE DEVICE BE TRANSPORTED IN THE FIELD?" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU ASK, "DO YOU PLAN ON KEEPING THE DEVICE IN ITS PACKAGING IN BETWEEN USE?" DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO BACK TO HER RESPONSE ON THE CARRY-OVER PARAGRAPH, YOU SEE THAT SHE TALKS AT THE END OF THE PARAGRAPH BEGINNING, "I INTEND TO PLUG." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE DEVICE WILL BE TRANSPORTED; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE TALKS THEN ABOUT HOW THE DEVICE WILL BE TRANSPORTED WHEN IT'S IN AFRICA; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE -- DO YOU SEE THE SENTENCE WHERE SHE SAYS, "WHEN WE FLY THE EQUIPMENT FROM UGANDA IT WILL BE ON A NON-PRESSURIZED AIRCRAFT AT ALTITUDES OF LESS THAN 10,000 FEET." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SO THAT IS A DESCRIPTION OF THE TRANSPORT OF THE DEVICE BETWEEN UGANDA AND CAMEROON AND SOUTH SUDAN; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: UM, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHERE IT WENT FROM UGANDA, BUT THOSE WERE OTHER GEOGRAPHIES THAT LIEUTENANT COLONEL GIVENS REFERENCED.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. WELL, SHE REFERENCED TRAVELLING ON NON-PRESSURIZED AIRCRAFT. SHE'S TALKING ABOUT TRAVEL WITHIN AFRICA; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE SO.

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT NON-PRESSURIZED AIRCRAFT THE DEVICE WAS TRANSPORTED ON?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT YOU KNOW THAT THIS EXPERIMENT DID EVALUATE THE DEVICE FLYING AT ALTITUDES LESS THAN 10,000 FEET; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU KNOW THAT THIS EXPERIMENT EVALUATED THE DEVICE WHILE FLYING AT ALTITUDES OF LESS THAN 10,000 FEET; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: THIS STATEMENT MENTIONS THAT IT WOULD TRAVEL THERE, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS EVALUATED IN THAT TIME.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. BUT SHE REPORTED AT THE END OF THE TRIP THAT THE DEVICE FUNCTIONED WELL; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. SO SHE DIDN'T REPORT ANY DAMAGE AS A RESULT OF THAT TRAVEL; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND MR. BOSTIC ASKED YOU ABOUT HOW THE DEVICE WAS POWERED. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IF YOU GO TO THE DISCUSSION JUST ABOVE WHERE THE AIRCRAFT IS DISCUSSED, SHE PROVIDES SOME INFORMATION ABOUT HOW POWER WOULD BE GENERATED AT THE LOCATIONS IN AFRICA. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND SHE INDICATES THAT FOR SOME TIME IT WILL BE -- SHE'LL BE IN A LOCATION WHERE THERE IS POWER; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THAT TIME, THE DEVICE WOULD BE OPERATED ON GENERATOR POWER. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT OPERATIONS THE UNITED STATES HAS IN UGANDA AND CAMEROON AND SOUTH SUDAN?

DANIEL EDLIN: NOT SPECIFICALLY.

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 13979. THIS IS THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION PROVIDED BY GROW MARKETING TO THERANOS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND MR. BOSTIC REVIEWED SEVERAL OF THE SLIDES IN THAT PRESENTATION WITH YOU?

MR. DOWNEY: AND THE ADVICE THAT WAS BEING CONVEYED IN THOSE SLIDES WAS BEING CONVEYED BY GROW MEDIA TO THERANOS IN CONNECTION WITH THAT MEDIA TRAINING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: YOU TALKED WITH MR. BOSTIC FOR A FEW MOMENTS ABOUT DEMONSTRATIONS ON YOUR REDIRECT. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU INDICATED -- YOU USE THE PHRASE THAT SAID, AGAIN, AS YOU HAD ON YOUR DIRECT, THAT THE DEMO APP WOULD HIDE ERRORS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: BUT THAT WAS FOR THE REASON THAT WE DISCUSSED ON YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

MR. DOWNEY: SURE. LET ME BE MORE SPECIFIC. IN CERTAIN SETTINGS, THERE MIGHT BE AN ERROR IN CONNECTION WITH OPERATION OF THE DEVICE BECAUSE THERE WAS, FOR EXAMPLE, NO BLOOD SAMPLE IN THE DEVICE; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WITH THE DEMO APP, SOMEBODY GETTING A DEMONSTRATION COULD STILL SEE THE USER INTERFACE OPERATING; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU DID NOT, AS YOU OBSERVED ALL OF THAT, THINK THERE WAS ANYTHING DECEPTIVE ABOUT IT; CORRECT?

DANIEL EDLIN: I DID NOT.

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU GOT ADVICE FROM MR. CRAIG, DR. YOUNG, OTHERS ABOUT WHICH APP WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR WHICH DEMONSTRATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 905. YOUR HONOR, MAY I JUST RETRIEVE THAT FROM MY DESK?

JUDGE DAVILA: YES, YES, OF COURSE.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

MR. DOWNEY: AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK IN EXHIBIT 905 AT PAGE 5 OF THE EXHIBIT. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: NOW, THIS IS A DOCUMENT THAT MR. BOSTIC JUST REVIEWED WITH YOU AND TALKED ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF RESULTS; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: IF YOU LOOK AT THE EMAIL THAT YOU SENT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS PAGE, DO YOU SEE THAT IT INDICATES UNDER "PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING," THE REMOVAL OF CERTAIN RESULTS?

MR. DOWNEY: AND IN THE FIRST INSTANCE IT TALKS ABOUT A RESULT BEING REMOVED "PER PAUL'S SUGGESTION." DO YOU SEE THAT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHO DOES THAT REFER TO?

DANIEL EDLIN: THAT REFERS TO PAUL PATEL.

MR. DOWNEY: AND WHO WAS PAUL PATEL?

DANIEL EDLIN: HE WAS THE HEAD OF ONE OF THE ASSAY TEAMS.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND IT WAS HIS SUGGESTION THAT RESULTS BE REMOVED IN CONNECTION WITH THIS REPORT?

MR. DOWNEY: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE DIALOGUE THAT YOU HAD WITH MR. BOSTIC AT THE END OF YOUR EXAMINATION. DO YOU RECALL ON CROSS-EXAMINATION WE LOOKED AT AN EMAIL BETWEEN YOU AND DR. ROBERTSON AND THE TECHNOLOGY ADVISORY BOARD?

MR. DOWNEY: HOW LONG WAS THAT EMAIL SENT BEFORE YOU DEPARTED FROM THE COMPANY?

DANIEL EDLIN: ABOUT TEN DAYS.

MR. DOWNEY: AND HAD THE TECHNOLOGY ADVISORY BOARD BEGUN ITS WORK AT THAT POINT?

DANIEL EDLIN: UM, I BELIEVE IT HAD, IT HAD FORMED OR IT WAS FORMING.

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND AGAIN, THE POINT OF THAT BOARD WAS TO EVALUATE AND ADVISE ON THE COMPANY'S TECHNOLOGY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. AND YOU ASSISTED WITH ITS FORMATION; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: AND YOU DID THAT IN PART TO ASSIST THE COMPANY IN ADDRESSING CONCERNS THAT HAD BEEN RAISED ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY; CORRECT?

MR. DOWNEY: OKAY. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. THANK YOU, MR. EDLIN.

Procedural 2Proc. 2End-of-Day Jury Admonition

JUDGE DAVILA: MR. BOSTIC?

MR. BOSTIC: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED?

MR. BOSTIC: YES, YOUR HONOR.

MR. DOWNEY: YES, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. YOU MAY BE EXCUSED. YOU CAN JUST LEAVE THE BINDERS THERE. AND I THINK WE'VE EXHAUSTED OUR DAY TODAY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. WE'LL TAKE OUR RECESS NOW. LET ME ASK YOU TO CONTINUE TO BE VIGILANT ON THE ADMONITION. DO NOT DO ANY INVESTIGATION, DO NOT READ OR OTHERWISE TRY TO LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CASE OUTSIDE OF THE COURTROOM, AND DO NOT FORM ANY OPINION ABOUT THIS CASE. I'LL ASK YOU TOMORROW MORNING AGAIN WHETHER ANY OF THOSE THINGS HAVE OCCURRED. WE'RE NOT IN SESSION TOMORROW, THURSDAY. WE WILL BE IN SESSION FRIDAY, AND I'M HOPING WE CAN GO UNTIL 4:00 O'CLOCK FRIDAY. ANY OBJECTIONS TO THAT? ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT? I SEE NO HANDS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR GENEROSITY WITH YOUR TIME. I APPRECIATE IT. I'M GOING TO PROBABLY, AS WE GO FORWARD, GOING TO CONTINUE TO ASK YOU ABOUT EXTENDING. AND ACTUALLY NOW LET ME SUGGEST THAT IT MIGHT BE 3:00 O'CLOCK WOULD BE OUR STANDARD TIME TO BREAK, AND I'D LIKE YOU TO THINK ABOUT THAT. IF WE CAN DO THAT INSTEAD OF THE 2:00 O'CLOCK TIME? I FEEL GUILTY. I FEEL LIKE I'VE KIND OF MORPHED YOU INTO THAT, HAVEN'T I? AND NOW I'M SLOWLY STEPPING UP TO 4:00 O'CLOCK. BUT LET'S SEE WHERE THIS TAKES US. I APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. WE'LL SEE YOU FRIDAY. THANK YOU.

(JURY OUT AT 2:58 P.M.)

JUDGE DAVILA: PLEASE BE SEATED. THANK YOU. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS LEFT, THE WITNESS, MR. EDLIN, HAS BEEN EXCUSED. HE IS GONE. THE GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE A WITNESS ON FRIDAY, I TAKE IT?

MR. LEACH: YES, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: AND IS THAT THE WITNESS WE DISCUSSED, WEBER?

MR. LEACH: WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DEBRIEF ABOUT THAT, BUT I ANTICIPATE --

JUDGE DAVILA: YOU WILL HAVE A WITNESS?

MR. LEACH: -- WE WILL HAVE MORE THAN ONE WITNESS.

MR. LEACH: AND I ANTICIPATE MR. WEBER.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYTHING FROM YOUR SIDE?

MR. DOWNEY: NOTHING FROM OUR SIDE.

JUDGE DAVILA: OKAY. THANK YOU. I DO WANT TO INDICATE THAT AT THE BREAK -- THIS IS IN REGARDS TO THE TYPING AND THE NOISE ISSUE -- MS. KRATZMANN SPOKE WITH THE JURORS. THE JURORS REPRESENTED THAT IT WAS BETTER REGARDING THE TYPING ISSUE. THEY, OF COURSE, DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE COMMENTS THAT I MADE, BUT THEY DID REPORT THAT THE ISSUE WAS BETTER. I UNDERSTAND, THOUGH -- AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE NOTICED, YOUR BACKS HAVE BEEN TO THE DOOR -- BUT WE HAVE HAD A MARSHAL'S REPRESENTATIVE COME IN. I'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT AND HAVE HE OR SHE COME IN JUST TO MONITOR THIS. AND THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE TYPING, I RESPECT AND APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE COMING TO YOUR COURT, YOUR PUBLIC COURT, THIS IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND YOU HAVE AN OPEN INVITATION TO VISIT YOUR COURT AND TO SEE YOUR SYSTEM OF JUSTICE IN OPERATION.

THE ONLY THING I DO ASK, AS I'VE SAID EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON TO THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE HERE, IS TO PLEASE RESPECT THE DECORUM AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ISSUES THAT ARE BEING LITIGATED HERE, AND TO DO THAT, AS YOU KNOW IF YOU LOOK AT OUR WEBSITE REGARDING THIS CASE, WE HAVE PERMITTED, I HAVE PERMITTED TYPING DEVICES TO COME IN THE COURTROOM, BUT I'VE REQUESTED THAT YOU HAVE A SILENT KEYBOARD. THOSE WOULD BE PERMITTED. AND I UNDERSTAND THOSE ARE MARKETED AND AVAILABLE. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE OR IF YOU'RE UNABLE TO MANIPULATE YOUR KEYBOARD IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT CAN'T BE SILENT, THEN I'M GOING TO NOT ASK YOU TO NOT COME TO THE COURTROOM, OR COURTHOUSE, BUT AS I SAID BEFORE, SHIFT YOUR ABILITY TO WATCH THIS PROCEEDING IN OUR OVERFLOW ROOM, WHICH DOES HAVE LIVE, LIVE STREAM REALTIME CAMERAS SO YOU CAN HEAR AND SEE THE WITNESS, AS WELL AS ANY QUESTIONING EXAMINATION. AND IT MAY BE THAT IF WE -- IF I HEAR OF SOME OTHER DISRUPTIONS FROM THE JURY SUCH THAT IT'S DISTRACTING THEM, I MAY ASK SOMEONE TO LEAVE. BUT I'D LIKE YOU TO SELF-POLICE, IF YOU CAN, AND PLEASE DO THAT, AND BE RESPECTFUL OF THE JURY, BE RESPECTFUL OF THESE PROCEEDINGS. THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ON THE MATTER. I APPRECIATE YOUR COOPERATION WITH THAT. ANYTHING ELSE, COUNSEL?

MR. BOSTIC: NO, YOUR HONOR.

MR. DOWNEY: NOTHING, YOUR HONOR.

JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. HAVE A GOOD EVENING.

COURT CLERK: COURT IS ADJOURNED.

(COURT ADJOURNED AT 3:01 P.M.)