Daniel Edlin — Direct
345 lines(JURY OUT AT 11:58 A.M.)
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE HOLMES MATTER. ALL COUNSEL ARE PRESENT AND MS. HOLMES IS PRESENT. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. I JUST WANTED TO BRING TO COUNSEL'S ATTENTION AN EMAIL THAT MS. KRATZMANN RECEIVED FROM ONE OF OUR JURORS. THE EMAIL INFORMS THAT THIS JUROR'S MOTHER-IN-LAW JUST PASSED. SHE DOESN'T KNOW YET ABOUT ARRANGEMENTS, BUT SHE MAY NEED TO TRAVEL SOON. SHE ASKED MS. KRATZMANN WHAT THE NEXT STEPS SHOULD BE. I ASKED MS. KRATZMANN TO INQUIRE WHAT THE TRAVEL DISTANCE MIGHT BE, AND I BELIEVE IT INVOLVES THE MIDWEST. SO -- AND AS OF YET, I'M INFORMED FROM MS. KRATZMANN THAT THIS WAS JUST SUDDEN NEWS, SO WE WILL -- I'LL ASK MS. KRATZMANN TO KEEP IN CONTACT WITH THE JUROR. WE'LL GET WHATEVER INFORMATION WE RECEIVE, AND THEN I'LL LET YOU KNOW AND WE CAN ADJUST ACCORDINGLY.
WHILE WE'RE ON THE TOPIC, I SHOULD INFORM YOU, AND I'D LIKE TO INFORM YOU, THAT I HAVE A DEAR FRIEND WHO IS CRITICALLY ILL NOW AND PROBABLY WON'T MAKE IT MUCH LONGER I'M INFORMED, AND THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO IS VERY CLOSE TO ME AND HIRED ME IN MY FIRST JOB IN THE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE, AND SO HE'S VERY CLOSE TO ME AND MY FAMILY. THAT MAY CAUSE ANOTHER BREAK. IF THERE'S A MEMORIAL SERVICE, I WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THAT WITH YOUR PERMISSION, AND IF WE CAN ADJUST THAT SHOULD THAT COME TO PASS, I'D LIKE TO DO THAT. BUT, AGAIN, WE'LL SEE WHAT BRINGS US. AND I DID HAVE OCCASION TO LOOK AT MY SCHEDULE ALSO, NOVEMBER 17TH IS A DATE THAT I'LL BE UNAVAILABLE FOR AN HOUR FROM 10:30 TO 11:30. I HAD PROMISED A LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR FRIEND THAT I WOULD MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE TO HIM AND HIS CLASS FOR THAT HOUR. SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT INTERRUPTION, BUT I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT KNOW SO YOU CAN SCHEDULE AROUND THAT. IT'S AN HOUR. SO THAT'S THE LATEST NEWS FOR OUR SCHEDULE. SO THANK YOU. WE'LL KEEP YOU POSTED ON THE JUROR'S SITUATION, AND I'LL TRY TO INFORM YOU AS BEST I CAN ON MY DEAR FRIEND'S SITUATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. I'LL STEP DOWN AND WE'LL BRING THE JURY IN, AND WE'RE GOING TO END AT 1:00 O'CLOCK HERE TODAY. I DON'T THINK WE'LL GET TO THIS ISSUE, MR. BOSTIC, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
MR. BOSTIC: NO, YOUR HONOR. THAT WILL COME UP ON TUESDAY.
JUDGE DAVILA: OKAY. GREAT. THANK YOU.
COURT CLERK: COURT IS IN RECESS.
(RECESS FROM 12:01 P.M. UNTIL 12:05 P.M.)
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD. OUR JURY IS PRESENT, ALL COUNSEL ARE PRESENT, AND MS. HOLMES IS PRESENT. MR. BOSTIC, YOU HAVE ANOTHER WITNESS?
MR. BOSTIC: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE UNITED STATES CALLS DANIEL EDLIN.
(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. SIR, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE COME FORWARD, AND IF YOU COULD STAND OVER HERE FACING OUR COURTROOM DEPUTY. IF YOU WOULD RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, SHE HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU.
(GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, DANIEL EDLIN, WAS SWORN.)
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU. PLEASE HAVE A SEAT HERE, SIR, AND MAKE YOURSELF COMFORTABLE. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADJUST THE CHAIR AND THE MICROPHONE AS YOU NEED. I'LL ENCOURAGE YOU TO SPEAK DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE. WHEN YOU ARE COMFORTABLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND THEN SPELL IT, PLEASE.
DANIEL EDLIN: DANIEL EDLIN. D-A-N-I-E-L, E-D-L-I-N.
JUDGE DAVILA: COUNSEL.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. EDLIN.
DANIEL EDLIN: GOOD AFTERNOON.
MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, IF YOU'RE FULLY VACCINATED AND COMFORTABLE DOING SO, I UNDERSTAND THE COURT WILL GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO TESTIFY WITHOUT YOUR MASK.
DANIEL EDLIN: YES, I AM.
JUDGE DAVILA: YOU CAN REMOVE YOUR MASK IF YOU WISH. THANK YOU.
DANIEL EDLIN: THANK YOU.
BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, WAS THERE A TIME WHEN YOU WERE EMPLOYED BY A COMPANY CALLED THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WERE YOUR APPROXIMATE DATES OF EMPLOYMENT AT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: I WAS EMPLOYED FROM SEPTEMBER 2011 THROUGH DECEMBER 2016.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THIS IN A LITTLE BIT, BUT FOR NOW CAN YOU GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF YOUR GENERAL ROLE OR YOUR ROLES AT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: SO I WAS FIRST HIRED AS A SENIOR PRODUCT MANAGER AND I REPORTED TO CHRISTIAN HOLMES, HE WAS THE TEAM LEAD. WORK IN THAT ROLE MAINLY FOCUSSED ON SUPPORTING RELATIONSHIPS WITH BUSINESS PARTNERS AND POTENTIAL PARTNERS. I WAS ON A TEAM OF OTHER PRODUCT MANAGERS, AND IN SOME OF THE ROLES I WORKED ALONGSIDE THEM. THAT INCLUDED SUPPORTING WORK WITH WALGREENS AND RETAIL PARTNERS. I WORKED TO OPERATIONALIZE THE WALGREENS PARTNERSHIP AND PLAN THE ROLLOUT OF THERANOS CENTERS IN WALGREENS STORES. I ALSO WORKED ALONGSIDE SOME OF THE OTHER PRODUCT MANAGERS SUPPORTING WORK WITH MARKETING AND COMMUNICATIONS AGENCIES. I ALSO WORKED DIRECTLY WITH ELIZABETH TO SUPPORT RELATIONSHIPS WITH MILITARY AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES. AND I ALSO COORDINATED TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS FOR GUESTS AND VISITORS. SO I WAS IN THAT ROLE FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS. AND AFTER KIND OF THE WALGREENS PARTNERSHIP GOT OFF THE GROUND, I WAS WORKING MORE DIRECTLY WITH ELIZABETH, AND I RECEIVED A PROMOTION TO A LEAD STRATEGIC OPERATIONS OFFICE OF THE CEO, AND IN THAT ROLE I STILL SUPPORTED PARTNERSHIPS AND POTENTIAL BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS, STILL WORKED ON MEDIA AND COMMUNICATIONS. AND THEN THERE WAS ALSO KIND OF AN OPERATIONAL ASPECT TO THE ROLE WHERE I WOULD WORK WITH SOME OF THE OTHER MEMBERS OF ELIZABETH'S OFFICE, LIKE HER ASSISTANTS, TO MAKE SURE THAT CERTAIN PROJECTS AND FEEDBACK THAT REQUIRED HER ATTENTION WERE COMPLETED, YOU KNOW, IN A TIMELY FASHION.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. THE PROMOTION THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED, WHEN DID IT TAKE EFFECT?
DANIEL EDLIN: IT TOOK EFFECT END OF 2014 INTO THE BEGINNING OF 2015.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU SAID YOU LEFT THE COMPANY IN DECEMBER OF 2016; IS THAT CORRECT?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: DID YOU LEAVE THE COMPANY VOLUNTARILY?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES, I DID.
MR. BOSTIC: AT A HIGH LEVEL IN GENERAL TERMS, WHAT WAS YOUR REASON FOR DECIDING TO LEAVE THE COMPANY AT THAT TIME?
DANIEL EDLIN: I LEFT THE COMPANY FOR TWO BASIC REASONS. FIRST WAS I WANTED TO GO TO BUSINESS SCHOOL, WHICH I DID. SECOND, YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME I NO LONGER BELIEVED, BASED ON WHAT I WAS SEEING, THAT THE COMPANY WAS CAPABLE OF STANDING BEHIND THE CLAIMS IT HAD BEEN MAKING ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY. THIS WAS ABOUT A YEAR AFTER THE FIRST "WALL STREET JOURNAL" CAME OUT, AND THE COMPANY MADE SEVERAL ATTEMPTS TO PROVE ITS TECHNOLOGY, BUT THEY WERE ALL UNSUCCESSFUL, AND I JUST NO LONGER WANTED TO BE IN THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT.
MR. BOSTIC: WE'LL CIRCLE BACK ON SOME OF THOSE DETAILS LATER, BUT FOR NOW LET'S START AT THE BEGINNING OF THE STORY. FIRST, CAN YOU SUMMARIZE YOUR EDUCATION FOR US AND ANY WORK HISTORY THAT CAME BEFORE THERANOS.
DANIEL EDLIN: FOR MY UNDERGRADUATE, I ATTENDED DUKE UNIVERSITY. I MAJORED IN PUBLIC POLICY AND HAD A CERTIFICATE IN MARKETS AND MANAGEMENT. I ALSO RECEIVED MY MASTER'S IN BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION FROM THE UCLA ANDERSON SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT IN 2019. I GRADUATED FROM DUKE IN 2009. FIRST JOB WAS AS A SALES AND RESEARCH ASSISTANT AT TELSEY ADVISORY GROUP, T-E-L-S-E-Y. IT WAS AN EQUITY RESEARCH SALES AND TRADING FIRM IN NEW YORK CITY.
MR. BOSTIC: WAS THAT YOUR ONLY JOB BEFORE JOINING THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: LET'S TALK ABOUT THERANOS THEN. HOW DID YOU INITIALLY HEAR ABOUT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: SO I ATTENDED DUKE WITH ELIZABETH'S BROTHER CHRISTIAN AND HE'S ONE OF MY CLOSEST FRIENDS, AND I ACTUALLY FIRST MET ELIZABETH WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE AT, YOU KNOW, GRADUATION AND BIRTHDAY DINNERS. SHE WAS INTRODUCED, YOU KNOW, AS CHRISTIAN'S SISTER, AND I WAS AWARE THAT SHE HAD DROPPED OUT OF STANFORD TO START HER OWN COMPANY. UNDER LESS THAN TWO YEARS AFTER GRADUATION, CHRISTIAN HAD GONE TO WORK AT THERANOS AND I KNEW THAT HE WAS DOING THAT. AND THEN A COUPLE MONTHS LATER, HE GAVE ME A CALL TO ACTUALLY TELL ME THAT THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY OPEN AT THERANOS TO JOIN THE COMPANY AND JOIN HIS TEAM, AND HE ALSO TOLD ME THAT HE HAD PRESENTED THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO A FEW OF OUR OTHER CLASSMATES AND FRIENDS FROM DUKE UNIVERSITY. SO WE DIDN'T REALLY DISCUSS TOO MANY DETAILS AT THE TIME, BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE THERE WAS A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL. AND CAME TO THE THERANOS OFFICERS TO INTERVIEW AS A GROUP, AND HEARD MORE ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY. IT SOUNDED INCREDIBLY EXCITING AND SOUNDED LIKE A REALLY GREAT OPPORTUNITY AT THAT TIME, I WAS 24 AT THE TIME, AND SO WE INTERVIEWED AND WE GOT THE OFFERS AND, YEAH, WE DID THAT.
MR. BOSTIC: SORRY.
DANIEL EDLIN: YEAH, SURE.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. LET ME ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. SO AT THE TIME WHEN YOU WERE COMING OUT TO INTERVIEW AT THERANOS, WHAT WAS EXCITING TO YOU ABOUT THAT OPPORTUNITY?
DANIEL EDLIN: OUR UNDERSTANDING -- MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THE COMPANY HAD DEVELOPED, YOU KNOW, BREAKTHROUGH, GROUNDBREAKING PROPRIETARY TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO DO FINGERSTICK BLOOD TESTING AND ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR VENOUS SAMPLE, WHICH HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP PATIENTS IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS WHO OTHERWISE COULDN'T GET THEIR BLOOD DRAWN, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE ARM. AND TESTS WOULD BE MORE AFFORDABLE, THEY WOULD BE MORE ACCESSIBLE. I UNDERSTOOD THAT THE COMPANY HAD JUST SIGNED A DEAL WITH WALGREENS, AND THAT PART OF MY ROLE WOULD BE TO OPERATIONALIZE AND BRING TO LIFE THAT PARTNERSHIP.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS YOUR SOURCE FOR THIS INFORMATION? WHEN WERE YOU LEARNING THESE THINGS?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE SOURCE OF THE INFORMATION WAS ELIZABETH AND SUNNY AND CHRISTIAN, AND WE FIRST HEARD ABOUT THIS INFORMATION DURING OUR INTERVIEWS. AND THEN WHEN I JOINED THE COMPANY WE LEARNED MORE.
MR. BOSTIC: AS PART OF THE JOB INTERVIEW PROCESS, DID YOU MEET INDIVIDUALLY WITH MR. BALWANI AND MS. HOLMES?
DANIEL EDLIN: I DID.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU REMEMBER LEARNING OF SOME MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE COMPANY AND ITS TECHNOLOGY DURING THOSE MEETINGS?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE INTERVIEWS WERE -- THERE WAS A GROUP PORTION OF THE INTERVIEW AND AN INDIVIDUAL PORTION, AND IN EACH OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS I WAS ABLE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY.
MR. BOSTIC: AT SOME POINT DID YOU SIGN A NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT WITH THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU ACTUALLY STARTED WORKING THERE?
DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY.
MR. BOSTIC: AS A RESULT OF JOB INTERVIEWS THAT YOU HAD, WERE YOU OFFERED A POSITION AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU ACCEPTED?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: OF THE GROUP THAT YOU WERE JUST MENTIONING, THE GROUP OF YOU WHO HAD ALL GONE TO COLLEGE TOGETHER, DID OTHER INDIVIDUALS ALSO ACCEPT SIMILAR POSITIONS AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES, EVERYONE ACCEPTED OFFERS FOR THE SAME POSITION AS A SENIOR PRODUCT MANAGER.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO ELSE WAS IN THAT GROUP? WHAT ARE THEIR NAMES?
DANIEL EDLIN: JEFF BLICKMAN, NICK MENCHEL, SANI HADZIAHMETOVIC, WHICH MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO SPELL. THOSE WERE THE FOUR OF US THAT JOINED INITIALLY. AND MAX FOSQUE JOINED A YEAR LATER. AND THEN A FEW YEARS LATER ANOTHER PERSON JOINED AS WELL, BUT THAT WAS -- YEAH.
MR. BOSTIC: WHEN YOU FIRST JOINED, WAS THIS IN 2011?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT MONTH IN 2011 APPROXIMATELY?
DANIEL EDLIN: SEPTEMBER.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. AND YOU SAID THAT YOUR INITIAL JOB TITLE WAS SENIOR PRODUCT MANAGER; IS THAT CORRECT?
DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO WERE YOU REPORTING TO IN THAT ROLE?
DANIEL EDLIN: I'VE REPORTED DIRECTLY TO CHRISTIAN. HE WAS THE TEAM LEAD.
MR. BOSTIC: AND BESIDES REPORTING WITH HIM -- SORRY. BESIDES REPORTING TO HIM, DID YOU ALSO WORK WITH HIM IN YOUR WORK AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DID THAT CHANGE OVER TIME? IN OTHER WORDS, WHO YOU WERE WORKING WITH AND WHO YOU WERE REPORTING TO, DID THAT CHANGE OVER THE MONTHS AND YEARS THAT YOU WERE AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: IT DID. INITIALLY I REPORTED TO CHRISTIAN, AND THEN ONCE I RECEIVED MY PROMOTION, I REPORTED TO ELIZABETH.
MR. BOSTIC: AND BEFORE YOU RECEIVED THE PROMOTION -- YOU SAID THAT WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF 2015?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: BEFORE THAT TIME PERIOD, HAD YOU BEGUN TO WORK MORE AND MORE WITH MS. HOLMES ON PROJECTS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND COULD YOU GIVE ME A SENSE OF HOW FREQUENTLY YOU WERE IN CONTACT WITH MS. HOLMES DURING YOUR TIME AT THE COMPANY? AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT PROBABLY CHANGED OVER TIME.
DANIEL EDLIN: IT DID CHANGE OVER TIME. I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, INITIALLY A COUPLE TIMES A WEEK, IF NOT MORE, AND AS MY TIME PROGRESSED AT THE COMPANY, IT EVENTUALLY BECAME ON A DAILY BASIS.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CONTACT WITH MS. HOLMES, HOW DID YOU COMMUNICATE WITH HER ABOUT WORK? ARE WE TALKING EMAILS? IN PERSON? TELEPHONE? SOME COMBINATION?
DANIEL EDLIN: IT WAS MAINLY EMAILS AND IN-PERSON CONVERSATIONS.
MR. BOSTIC: THROUGH YOUR CONTACT WITH MS. HOLMES AND THROUGH WORKING WITH HER, DID YOU COME TO HAVE A SENSE OF HER WORKING HOURS AT THE COMPANY, HOW FREQUENTLY SHE WAS THERE?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS YOUR SENSE OF THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: SHE WAS IN THE OFFICE ALL THE TIME REALLY FROM, YOU KNOW, EARLY MORNING TO LATE IN THE EVENING.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THAT TRUE THROUGHOUT YOUR TIME AT THE COMPANY AS FAR AS YOU SAW?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT WEEKENDS? WAS MS. HOLMES EVER THERE ON WEEKENDS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: WERE YOU THERE --
DANIEL EDLIN: REGULARLY, YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WERE YOU THERE ON WEEKENDS ALSO AND SEE HER THERE?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT HOW INFORMATION WAS HANDLED AT THERANOS. GENERALLY SPEAKING, DID YOU GET A SENSE OF HOW INFORMATION MOVED AROUND THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: I CAN ONLY REALLY SPEAK TO, I GUESS, MY TEAM AND THE INFORMATION THAT I WAS INVOLVED WITH, BUT GENERALLY VIA EMAIL OR IN PERSON MEETINGS WITHIN THE TEAM THAT I WAS ON.
MR. BOSTIC: AND LET ME ASK SPECIFICALLY IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WAS INFORMATION FREELY SHARED AT THE COMPANY BETWEEN EMPLOYEES, BETWEEN GROUPS?
DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK THE INFORMATION WAS SHARED MORE AMONGST THAT PARTICULAR TEAM, AND THERE WASN'T MUCH INFORMATION SHARING ACROSS TEAMS, AT LEAST AS I OBSERVED.
MR. BOSTIC: AND IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WAS THAT BECAUSE OF THE PREFERENCES OF THE TEAM MEMBERS AND YOURSELF OR WAS THAT BECAUSE OF DIRECTION FROM ABOVE IN THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: DIRECTION FROM ABOVE.
MR. BOSTIC: AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? WHAT WAS THAT DIRECTION?
DANIEL EDLIN: FOR THE PROJECTS THAT I WORKED ON, I WAS TOLD BY, YOU KNOW, CHRISTIAN, AND ALSO ELIZABETH AND SUNNY, TO NOT SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WE WERE WORKING ON OUTSIDE OF, OUTSIDE OF THE TEAM THAT I WAS ON BECAUSE IT WAS CONSIDERED CONFIDENTIAL TO JUST THE TEAM THAT I WAS ON.
MR. BOSTIC: SO THAT WENT EVEN FOR OTHER EMPLOYEES OF THE COMPANY WHO WERE NOT PART OF THAT TEAM WITHIN THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: I CAN'T FULLY SPEAK FOR THEM. BUT THERE WAS GENERALLY A KIND OF INSTRUCTION THAT I WAS ON A, YOU KNOW, NEED-TO-KNOW BASIS AND THAT INFORMATION THAT I NEEDED TO KNOW RELATIVE TO THE WORK I WAS DOING I COULD SEEK, BUT ASIDE FROM THAT, I HAD NO NEED TO ASK ABOUT IT AND SHOULDN'T ASK ABOUT IT.
MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT AS TO INDIVIDUALS OUTSIDE OF THE COMPANY? WERE THERE RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT INFORMATION NEEDED TO BE KEPT WITHIN THERANOS AND COULDN'T BE SHARED WITH THE PUBLIC, FOR EXAMPLE?
DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT NO INFORMATION COULD BE SHARED WITH THE PUBLIC UNLESS IT WAS, YOU KNOW, APPROVED, AND I KNOW THAT EVERYONE WHO CAME TO THE COMPANY SIGNED A NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT AND THE INTENT WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT INFORMATION WAS NOT COMMUNICATED EXTERNALLY.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO COMMUNICATED THAT DIRECTION OR POLICY TO YOU AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: I RECEIVED THAT FROM -- THAT DIRECTION FROM CHRISTIAN AND ALSO FROM ELIZABETH AND FROM SUNNY.
MR. BOSTIC: WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW SOME INDIVIDUALS AT THERANOS WERE NOT TO KNOW CERTAIN THINGS THAT OTHER INDIVIDUALS AT THE COMPANY KNEW. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT NEEDED TO BE KEPT FROM MS. HOLMES OR FROM MR. BALWANI?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE COMPANY BESIDES THOSE TWO WHO YOU UNDERSTOOD WERE ALLOWED TO KNOW EVERY PIECE OF INFORMATION AT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU TESTIFIED A FEW MINUTES AGO THAT YOU HAD A ROLE IN CONNECTION WITH THE ROLLOUT OF THERANOS TESTING AT WALGREENS; IS THAT CORRECT?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT ROLE? WHAT KIND OF WORK DID YOU DO THERE?
DANIEL EDLIN: SO IN THAT ROLE I WAS ON A TEAM WITH OTHER PRODUCT MANAGERS AND WE WORKED DIRECTLY WITH THE RETAIL PHARMACY OPERATIONS TEAM FROM WALGREENS TO PLAN OUT THE STORE OPERATION. THAT INCLUDED PICKING A GEOGRAPHY IN A PILOT AREA, WHICH WAS IN ARIZONA. AND MY WORK REALLY FOCUSSED ON THE FRONT END CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE PROCESS FOR SOMEONE WHO VISITED A WALGREENS STORE, AND THE FULL PROCESS THAT THEY WENT FROM BASICALLY BEGINNING OF THAT VISIT UNTIL THE END. SO THAT INCLUDED SOME OF THE BRANDING AND MARKETING IN THE STORE. THERE WAS AN ASPECT OF SOME SOFTWARE AND APPLICATIONS THAT WERE -- THAT A PHARMACIST USED TO CHECK A PATIENT IN, AND THEN THERE WAS A SOFTWARE, YOU KNOW, APP THAT GUIDED A TECHNICIAN OR A PHLEBOTOMIST TO COLLECT -- USE THE RIGHT TUBES TO COLLECT BLOOD FROM A PATIENT BASED ON THEIR ORDER.
MR. BOSTIC: AND JUST TO ORIENT US IN TIME, DO YOU HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF WHEN THERANOS FIRST STARTED OFFERING TESTING SERVICES THROUGH WALGREENS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES. IT WAS AROUND SEPTEMBER OF 2013.
MR. BOSTIC: AS PART OF YOUR ROLE IN CONNECTION WITH THAT TESTING SERVICE, DID YOU COME TO HAVE SOME LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT DEVICES THERANOS WAS USING TO PERFORM BLOOD TESTS?
DANIEL EDLIN: I WAS FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF THE DEVICES THAT THERANOS HAD AT THE TIME.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT DEVICES WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH AT THERANOS? AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THE 2013, 2014 TIME PERIOD.
DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT. SO I WASN'T AWARE EXACTLY OF WHAT WAS USED TO PERFORM THE TESTS FOR WALGREENS, BUT I DID BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THE EDISON VERSION, EDISON 3.0 OF THE THERANOS DEVICE RELATIVELY EARLY ON IN MY EMPLOYMENT. I FIRST BECAME AWARE OF IT THROUGH SOME EXISTING SLIDE DECK PRESENTATIONS THAT MY TEAM AND I WORKED TO BASICALLY REFORMAT. THERE WAS A SLIDE WITH AN IMAGE OF THE DEVICE, FOR EXAMPLE. I ALSO ATTENDED MEETINGS WHERE THE DEVICE WAS PRESENT IN A ROOM AND THERE WAS A TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION.
MR. BOSTIC: THE EDISON 3.0 AND DID YOU MENTION THE 3.5 AS WELL?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE 3.5 WAS A VERSION OF THE EDISON. I THINK IT WAS IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS SOME DIFFERENT COMPONENTS WITHIN IT.
MR. BOSTIC: IN 2013 OR 2014, DID YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHETHER THERANOS WAS USING THE EDISON, EITHER THE 3.0 OR THE 3.5, TO CONDUCT PATIENT TESTING?
DANIEL EDLIN: AT THAT TIME I DID NOT HAVE THAT UNDERSTANDING.
MR. BOSTIC: LATER ON DID YOU COME TO LEARN WHETHER THERANOS WAS USING THE EDISON FOR PATIENT TESTING?
DANIEL EDLIN: I DID.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THE ANSWER THERE?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT IT DID USE THOSE DEVICES FOR PATIENT TESTING.
MR. BOSTIC: IN 2013 AND 2014, DID YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE CAPABILITIES OF THE EDISON WERE? IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT KINDS OF TESTS IT COULD RUN, WHAT KINDS OF TESTS IT COULD NOT RUN?
DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE IF I KNEW THE FULL EXTENT IN 2013 OR 2014.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DID YOUR JOB IN 2013 AND 2014 REQUIRE YOU TO KNOW EXACTLY WHICH ASSAYS COULD BE RUN ON THE EDISON AND WHICH COULD NOT.
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: BESIDES THE EDISON AND THE OTHER TWO VERSIONS THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, WERE THERE OTHER THERANOS BUILT ANALYZERS THAT YOU BECAME FAMILIAR WITH WHILE YOU WERE AT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WERE THOSE?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT WAS THE MINILAB. THERE ARE A FEW DIFFERENT NAMES. THE MINILAB WAS ONE, THE EDISON 4.0 AND THE 4 SERIES. THESE WERE CONSIDERED THE NEXT GENERATION VERSION OF THE THERANOS DEVICES, AND MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THOSE DEVICES HAD INCREASED CAPABILITIES AND THE ABILITY TO DO MORE TESTS THAN THE EDISON VERSION, THE 3.0 VERSION.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. YOU CALLED THOSE NEXT GENERATION DEVICES. THESE NEXT GENERATION DEVICES, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WERE THOSE EVER USED FOR CLINICAL PATIENT TESTING DURING YOUR TIME AT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: I DID LEARN THAT THEY WERE NOT USED FOR PATIENT TESTING IN 2016, MY LAST YEAR AT THE COMPANY.
MR. BOSTIC: AND JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR ON THAT ANSWER, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU LEARNED IN 2016 ABOUT WHETHER THEY HAD BEEN USED FOR CLINICAL PATIENT TESTING?
DANIEL EDLIN: CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND BASED ON WHAT YOU LEARNED IN 2016, HAD THEY BEEN USED AT ANY POINT IN TIME FOR CLINICAL PATIENT TESTING AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: IN THE 2013, 2014 TIME PERIOD, WERE YOU AWARE OF THERANOS'S USE OF THIRD PARTY DEVICES TO RUN SOME BLOOD TESTS?
DANIEL EDLIN: I WAS AWARE THAT THERANOS USED THIRD PARTY DEVICES TO RUN VENOUS TESTS AT THAT TIME, 2013, 2014.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. UNDERSTOOD. AT THAT TIME DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THERANOS USING MODIFIED THIRD PARTY DEVICES TO RUN FINGERSTICK BLOOD SAMPLES?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THAT AT SOME POINT WHEN YOU WERE AT THE COMPANY?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHEN DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: I LEARNED THAT IN 2016.
MR. BOSTIC: AND HOW DID IT COME TO BE, IF YOU REMEMBER, THAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT THE COMPANY'S USE OF MODIFIED THIRD PARTY DEVICES?
DANIEL EDLIN: AT THAT TIME AT THE BEGINNING OF 2016, THERANOS HELD A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT MEETINGS WITH A NUMBER OF LAB DIRECTORS FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH THE GOAL BEING FORMING A SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL ADVISORY BOARD, AND IN THOSE MEETINGS ASPECTS OF THE DEVICES IN THE CLINICAL LAB WERE DISCUSSED, AND IN THOSE CONVERSATIONS I LEARNED ABOUT LAB DEVELOPED TESTS THAT HAD BEEN DEVELOPED ON THIRD PARTY ANALYZERS TO TEST FINGERSTICK SAMPLES.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT YOUR ROLE IN CONNECTION WITH THE WALGREENS ROLLOUT SPECIFICALLY. DO YOU RECALL THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND IN CONNECTION WITH THAT ROLE, DID YOU COME TO HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE THERANOS WALGREENS LOCATIONS OPERATED? I'M JUST ASKING YES OR NO FOR NOW. DID YOU COME TO HAVE A BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF HOW A THERANOS LOCATION AT A WALGREENS WOULD WORK?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES, A WELLNESS CENTER, YEP, RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WERE YOU INVOLVED AT ALL IN SETTING UP THOSE LOCATIONS AND HELPING TO GET THEM OPERATIONAL?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AT THE WALGREENS LOCATIONS, WHO WERE THE STAFF MEMBERS THAT THERANOS PATIENTS WOULD ACTUALLY INTERACT WITH?
DANIEL EDLIN: PATIENTS INTERACTED WITH WALGREENS TECHNICIANS, AND ALSO PHLEBOTOMISTS IN THE STORES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND AS TO THE TECHNICIANS AND PHLEBOTOMISTS, WERE THEY BOTH WALGREENS EMPLOYEES OR WERE THEY THERANOS EMPLOYEES? DO YOU RECALL?
DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE INITIALLY THEY WERE WALGREENS EMPLOYEES, BUT THERANOS EMPLOYEES WERE ALSO IN THAT ROLE.
MR. BOSTIC: AS TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE WORKING AT THE WALGREENS WHO INTERACTED WITH PATIENTS, WAS THERANOS INVOLVED IN TRAINING THOSE INDIVIDUALS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WERE YOU INVOLVED SPECIFICALLY IN THAT TRAINING?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: WHAT DO YOU RECALL ABOUT THAT TRAINING PROGRAM?
DANIEL EDLIN: I RECALL THAT THERE WERE MEETINGS WITH SEVERAL OF THE WALGREENS TECHNICIANS WHERE, YOU KNOW, A CERTAIN PREDETERMINED TRAINING PROGRAM WAS DEVELOPED, AND IN ONE MEETING I AND THE OTHER PRODUCT MANAGERS GAVE A TRAINING, BUT THERE WAS A TRAIN THE TRAINER TYPE OF MODEL. SO THE IDEA WAS ONCE YOU TRAIN WALGREENS PHARMACISTS OR TECHNICIANS, THEY WOULD THEN BE ABLE TO TRAIN THEIR COLLEAGUES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND BESIDES YOU AT THERANOS, WHO ELSE DO YOU RECALL BEING INVOLVED IN KIND OF HELPING CREATE AND IMPLEMENT THAT TRAINING PROGRAM?
DANIEL EDLIN: OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PRODUCT MANAGEMENT TEAM THAT WE DISCUSSED.
MR. BOSTIC: THE OTHER INDIVIDUALS THAT YOU HAD GONE TO COLLEGE WITH?
DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: DURING YOUR TIME AT THE COMPANY, WERE THERE SOME PROJECTS THAT YOU WORKED ON THAT YOU HANDLED BY YOURSELF AND WERE THERE OTHER PROJECTS THAT INVOLVED APPROVAL OR REQUIRED APPROVAL FROM MS. HOLMES?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES. AND I WOULD -- I WOULD ADD IN YOUR PRIOR QUESTION, THERE WERE ALSO OTHER MEMBERS WITHIN, WITHIN THE COMPANY THAT WE WORKED WITH TO DEVELOP THAT, TRAINING INCLUDING CONSUMABLES ENGINEERS AND SOME OF THE OTHER ENGINEERS WITHIN THE COMPANY.
MR. BOSTIC: AND AS TO THAT TRAINING PROGRAM, DID THAT TRAINING PROGRAM RISE TO THE LEVEL WHERE THE CEO, MS. HOLMES, WOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN APPROVING ASPECTS OF IT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: DID THAT TRAINING INCLUDE CONVEYING TO THE STAFF AT WALGREENS SOME OF THE BENEFITS OR POSITIVE ATTRIBUTES OF THE THERANOS TECHNOLOGY?
DANIEL EDLIN: I'M NOT SURE IF IT SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED THE TECHNOLOGY ITSELF, BUT I DO REMEMBER THAT AS PART OF THE TRAINING THERE WAS CONTENT RELATED TO IMPROVING ACCESSIBILITY AND AFFORDABILITY FOR PATIENTS TO GET LAB TESTS DONE, AND THAT THERANOS WAS AN INNOVATIVE SILICON VALLEY TECHNOLOGY COMPANY.
MR. BOSTIC: AND THAT POSITIVE INFORMATION ABOUT THE THERANOS SERVICE, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF INCLUDING THAT IN THE TRAINING PROGRAM, IF YOU RECALL?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE PURPOSE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE -- IT WAS TO HELP THE WALGREENS TECHNICIANS GET EXCITED AND BUY INTO THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE NEW LAB OFFERING AND CREATE SOME EXCITEMENT BEHIND THIS NEW SERVICE THAT WAS BEING OFFERED.
MR. BOSTIC: AND IN DOING THAT, DID THE COMPANY ALSO HOPE TO CREATE EXCITEMENT IN THE PATIENTS AND CUSTOMERS WHO WERE COMING INTO THE WALGREENS LOCATIONS?
DANIEL EDLIN: CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? SORRY.
MR. BOSTIC: SURE. IN PROVIDING THAT POSITIVE INFORMATION TO THE WALGREENS STAFF, WAS IT ALSO HOPED THAT THAT WOULD RESULT IN BUILDING EXCITEMENT FOR THE WALGREENS CUSTOMERS WHO INTERACTED WITH THE STAFF?
DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK THE INTENT WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE INTERACTIONS WERE POSITIVE. AND I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SAY TO INCREASE THEIR EXCITEMENT, BUT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE INTERACTIONS, YOU KNOW, WERE POSITIVE FOR THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE.
MR. BOSTIC: AS PART OF YOUR ROLE AT THE COMPANY, DID YOU SOMETIMES HANDLE TOURS OF THE THERANOS FACILITY?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT THERANOS FACILITIES DID YOU HANDLE TOURS FOR?
DANIEL EDLIN: I WAS ASKED TO, ON OCCASION, GIVE TOURS OF THE THERANOS -- I BELIEVE IT WAS THE 1701 FACILITY, AND -- YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I CAN RECALL. AND IN THOSE TOURS I WOULD WALK WITH GUESTS AROUND THE BUILDING, WE WOULD LOOK AT SOME OF THE EMPLOYEE WORK SPACE, OFTENTIMES THE R&D LAB, AND THAT WAS THE EXTENT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS 1701, WAS THAT THE ADDRESS OF THE THERANOS HEADQUARTERS?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT WAS THE ADDRESS OF THE THERANOS HEADQUARTERS, RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO WERE THE INDIVIDUALS RECEIVING THESE TOURS GENERALLY SPEAKING?
DANIEL EDLIN: GENERALLY IT WAS A MIX OF INDIVIDUALS. SOMETIMES IT WAS POTENTIAL BUSINESS PARTNERS AND VISITORS. ESSENTIALLY ANY VISITOR WHO ASKED AND ELIZABETH GAVE PERMISSION TO GIVE A TOUR, THAT WOULD BE THE POTENTIAL.
MR. BOSTIC: WHAT KIND OF PERMISSION OR APPROVAL WAS REQUIRED FOR SOMEONE TO BE GRANTED A TOUR OF THE THERANOS HEADQUARTERS?
DANIEL EDLIN: APPROVAL FROM ELIZABETH AND/OR SUNNY.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU MENTIONED SOME AREAS THAT YOU RECALL GIVING TOURS OF. DO YOU RECALL EVER GIVING ANYONE A TOUR OF THE THERANOS CLINICAL LAB DURING ANY OF THOSE VISITS?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: AND ONCE SOMEONE WAS ALLOWED TO DO A TOUR, WHOSE DECISION WAS IT, KIND OF WHAT AREAS OF THE FACILITY THAT THEY WERE ALLOWED TO SEE?
DANIEL EDLIN: IT WAS ELIZABETH'S DECISION, AND I RECALL THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED WHAT A POTENTIAL TOUR WOULD LOOK LIKE, AND THEN -- SO WE ESTABLISHED WHAT THAT WOULD BE, AND THEN FOR FUTURE TOURS I WOULD JUST FOLLOW THAT DIRECTION.
MR. BOSTIC: WERE THERE ANY OCCASIONS WHERE, IN ADVANCE OF TOURS, YOU WERE ASKED TO MAKE CHANGES TO ANY AREAS OF THE FACILITY AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: WHAT DO YOU RECALL ABOUT THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: I RECALL THAT IN ADVANCE OF A TOUR THERE WOULD BE CERTAIN AREAS OF SOME OF THE LABS THAT WERE HIDDEN BY A PARTITION, OFTENTIMES AREAS WHERE THERE WERE THERANOS DEVICES TO MAKE SURE THAT WHOEVER WAS ON THE TOUR COULDN'T SEE THEM.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU REMEMBER THAT HAPPENING MORE THAN ONCE?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT SITUATIONS WHERE SOMETHING MIGHT BE ADDED TO ANY OF THE FACILITIES AT THERANOS? DO YOU RECALL EVER INSTALLING OR SETTING UP DEVICES IN ADVANCE OF A TOUR?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, FOR, FOR TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS, THERE WOULD TYPICALLY BE A ROOM SET UP WITH THERANOS DEVICES, AND THAT WAS KIND OF STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE FOR MOST VISITORS. AND I DO RECALL ANOTHER INSTANCE IN WHICH, IN ONE OF THE ROOMS ADJACENT TO THE CLINICAL LAB, ELIZABETH ASKED THAT I WORK WITH DANIEL YOUNG, WHO WAS A SCIENTIST AT THERANOS, TO SET UP A NUMBER OF THE MINILAB TOWER VERSION, SO THAT WAS THE MINILAB THAT HAD COMPONENTS STACKED UPON ONE ANOTHER. AND I SET THOSE UP IN ONE OF THE ROOMS ADJACENT TO THE CLINICAL LAB ON ONE OCCASION.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THAT OCCASION IN ADVANCE OF ONE OF THESE VIP VISITS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY WHEN THAT WAS?
DANIEL EDLIN: I BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS AROUND THE SUMMER TIME OF 2013.
MR. BOSTIC: CAN YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT WHAT THAT ROOM LOOKED LIKE? WHAT WAS THE DIRECTION FROM MS. HOLMES ABOUT WHAT WAS TO BE THERE AND HOW TO SET IT UP?
DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T RECALL WHAT -- IF THERE WAS ANYTHING IN THAT ROOM BEFOREHAND. ELIZABETH ASKED THAT I SET UP ABOUT 10 TO 15 OF THE MINILAB DEVICES IN THAT ROOM KIND OF NEXT TO EACH OTHER AGAINST THE WALL. ALL OF THE DEVICES HAD -- YOU KNOW, OPERATED THE SAME, TOUCHSCREEN AND KIND OF A SCREEN ON THE DEVICE. ONE OF THEM COULD ALSO ACCEPT A CARTRIDGE IF NEEDED. SO I THINK A DAY BEFORE THE MEETING I WORKED WITH DANIEL TO SET THOSE DEVICES UP. THE MEETING AND TOUR HAPPENED, AND THEN ABOUT A DAY OR TWO LATER I ASKED ELIZABETH IF THOSE DEVICES SHOULD REMAIN IN THERE AND SHE SAID NO, SO I WORKED WITH DANIEL TO GET THOSE REMOVED.
MR. BOSTIC: A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. FIRST OF ALL, IN THE 2013 TIME PERIOD, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THE MINILAB ANALYZER WAS BEING USED BY THERANOS TO RUN ANY CLINICAL PATIENT TESTING?
DANIEL EDLIN: MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IT WASN'T -- AND THIS WAS PART OF WHAT I LEARNED IN, YOU KNOW, IN 2016 -- WAS THAT NONE OF THE MINILABS HAD BEEN USED FOR CLINICAL PATIENT TESTING.
MR. BOSTIC: OF THE DEVICES THAT MS. HOLMES ASKED YOU TO PLACE IN THAT ROOM ON OCCASION, WERE ALL OF THEM CAPABLE OF ACCEPTING A CARTRIDGE TO RUN A SAMPLE?
DANIEL EDLIN: I AM NOT SURE. I ONLY REMEMBER MAKING SURE THAT ONE OF THE DEVICES COULD.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THAT THE INSTRUCTION FROM MS. HOLMES, THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THEM NEEDED TO BE CAPABLE OF THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WERE THE DEVICES THERE FOR STORAGE? IN OTHER WORDS, WERE THEY JUST SITTING THERE UNPLUGGED, OR WERE THEY POWERED ON?
DANIEL EDLIN: THEY WERE POWERED ON.
MR. BOSTIC: THE MEETING THAT MS. HOLMES ASKED YOU TO DO THAT IN ADVANCE OF, WERE YOU PART OF THAT MEETING?
DANIEL EDLIN: THERE WERE SEVERAL PARTS OF THAT MEETING, AND I WAS A PART OF SOME OF THEM, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.
MR. BOSTIC: HOW ABOUT THE PART OF THE MEETING, IF THERE WAS ONE, WHERE INDIVIDUALS WERE SHOWN THE ROOM THAT YOU SET UP? DID YOU EVER SEE INDIVIDUALS OBSERVE THAT ROOM?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU RECALL WHETHER, FROM THAT ROOM THAT HELD THOSE DEVICES, ANY OTHER PORTIONS OF THE CLINICAL LAB COULD BE SEEN?
DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T KNOW IF THEY COULD OR NOT.
MR. BOSTIC: A FEW MINUTES AGO YOU TALKED ABOUT TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS OF THE THERANOS TECHNOLOGY; IS THAT RIGHT?
DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND HOW DID THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS WORK?
DANIEL EDLIN: SO TYPICALLY I WOULD BE NOTIFIED THAT A GUEST WAS VISITING THERANOS, EITHER BY -- I LEARNED THAT THROUGH MULTIPLE WAYS, EITHER FROM ELIZABETH OR FROM HER ASSISTANTS, OR FROM SUNNY OR HIS ASSISTANTS, AND MY ROLE WAS TO COORDINATE THE DIFFERENT PERSONNEL WITHIN THE COMPANY, AND THERE WOULD BE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO THAT PROCESS. FIRST, THERE WOULD BE ENGINEERS WHO WOULD PREPARE THE DEVICE AND CERTAIN CARTRIDGES, AND THEY WOULD SET UP A NUMBER OF DEVICES IN A ROOM. SO THEY -- I WOULD NOTIFY THEM. THEY WOULD MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS IN THE ROOM. I WOULD ALSO NOTIFY SOME OF THE LAB PERSONNEL AND ENGINEERS THAT A DEMO COULD HAPPEN, A DEMONSTRATION COULD HAPPEN, SO THAT IF A SAMPLE WAS COLLECTED AND THEY NEEDED TO PROCESS THE SAMPLE, THAT THEY WOULD BE READY TO DO THAT AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE. THERE WERE ALSO PHLEBOTOMISTS WHO WOULD COLLECT THE ACTUAL SAMPLE. SO THEY WERE ALSO ON NOTICE THAT ONE OF THESE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS COULD HAPPEN. ONCE -- IF IT CAME TO THAT POINT IN TIME IN A MEETING TO ACTUALLY DO THE DEMONSTRATION, I WOULD LET THE FOLKS KNOW THAT IT WAS HAPPENING AND ENSURE THAT LAB PERSONNEL WERE AVAILABLE TO EITHER RECEIVE A SAMPLE IF THE INTENT WAS TO TEST THE SAMPLE IN THE LAB. OTHER TIMES THE SAMPLE WAS JUST TESTED ON THE DEVICE ITSELF IN THAT MOMENT. THEN THE LAB PERSONNEL PROCESSED THE SAMPLE, AND THEN OFTEN DANIEL YOUNG WOULD REVIEW THE FINAL TEST RESULTS AND PROVIDE ANY EDITS OR COMMENTARY THAT WAS NEEDED.
MR. BOSTIC: AND AGAIN, WHO WAS THE BENEFICIARY OF THESE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS? WHO WAS THE AUDIENCE FOR THEM?
DANIEL EDLIN: IT WAS A RANGE OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF VISITORS, BUT POTENTIAL BUSINESS PARTNERS, INVESTORS ON OCCASION, SOME BOARD MEMBERS DID THIS, AND THEN JUST OTHER UNAFFILIATED, I WOULD SAY, GUESTS, VIP'S.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS IT PART OF YOUR JOB TO COORDINATE THE PLACEMENT OF DEVICES IN THE ACTUAL REFERENCE ROOMS WHERE THE MEETINGS WITH THESE VIP'S WOULD BE HELD?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT KINDS OF DEVICES WOULD YOU BE ASKED TO PLACE IN THOSE CONFERENCE ROOMS?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE EDISON, THE EDISON VERSIONS AND THE MINILAB VERSIONS.
MR. BOSTIC: THE THERANOS MANUFACTURED ANALYZERS?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE THERANOS ANALYZERS, RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
JUDGE DAVILA: YES.
BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, I'VE HANDED YOU A BINDER OF DOCUMENTS. IF I COULD ASK YOU TO START BY TURNING TO TAB 959, PLEASE.
JUDGE DAVILA: WHILE HE DOES THAT, ANTHONY, CAN I SEE YOU FOR JUST A SECOND?
BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO REVIEW EXHIBIT 959.
(DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD.)
JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU, ANTHONY.
BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, HAVE YOU HAD A MOMENT TO REVIEW EXHIBIT 959?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND ARE YOU LOOKING AT AN EMAIL CHAIN FROM AUGUST OF 2013 INVOLVING YOU AND OTHER INDIVIDUALS AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE CONTENT, WHAT IS THE GENERAL SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS EMAIL?
DANIEL EDLIN: THE SUBJECT MATTER IS A TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION.
MR. BOSTIC: WERE EMAILS USED FOR THE ROUTINE COORDINATION OF THESE TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS?
DANIEL EDLIN: THAT WAS THE PRIMARY METHOD THAT THESE WERE COORDINATED, YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THAT THE MECHANISM BY WHICH THE DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED IN THE DEMONSTRATION KNEW WHERE THINGS STOOD STATUS-WISE AND WHAT THE NEXT STEPS WERE GOING TO BE?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DID THE EMAILS THEN SERVE AS A RECORD OF THE PROCESS FOR CONDUCTING THESE DEMONSTRATIONS AS PART OF THERANOS'S BUSINESS?
DANIEL EDLIN: I THINK GENERALLY, YES. THERE WERE, I'M SURE, OTHER INSTANCES WHERE THERE WERE, YOU KNOW, VERBAL CONVERSATIONS AS WELL.
MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT MOVES TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 959.
MR. DOWNEY: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED, AND IT MAY BE SHOWN TO THE JURY.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 959 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
MR. BOSTIC: MS. HOLLIMAN, IF WE CAN PROJECT THAT AND START WITH PAGE 2. AND IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THE TOP HALF OF THE PAGE.
MR. BOSTIC: MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE AN EMAIL FROM YOU ON AUGUST 8TH, 2013?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU EMAIL A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS. ARE THOSE OTHER EMPLOYEES AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU SAY, "GENTLEMEN. "FOR THE EXECUTIVE MEETING ON 8/13, WE'LL NEED TO HAVE A 4S AND MINILAB SET UP IN INTERVIEW ROOM NUMBER 1." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: WAS THIS IN CONNECTION WITH AN UPCOMING TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATION?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU GO ON TO SAY, "PLAN A IS TO HAVE BOTH ABLE TO RUN NULL PROTOCOLS." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND IT SAYS, "PLAN B IS TO HAVE THE 4S ABLE TO RUN A CBC, IF POSSIBLE." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DOES CBC STAND FOR COMPLETE BLOOD COUNT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THE NULL PROTOCOL AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: SO THE DEVICES RAN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS BASED ON A CARTRIDGE, AND A PROTOCOL IS ESSENTIALLY INSTRUCTIONS ON THE PROCESSES THAT A DEVICE UNDERGOES. A NULL PROTOCOL WAS ESSENTIALLY AN EMPTY PROTOCOL. IF, LET'S SAY, NO CARTRIDGE WAS INSERTED INTO A DEVICE OR IF A CARTRIDGE WAS INSERTED INTO A DEVICE WITHOUT A BLOOD SAMPLE, BOTH OF THOSE CASES A TEST WASN'T INTENDED TO BE RUN, THEN THE NULL PROTOCOL WOULD ACTIVATE.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WOULD IT DO THEN IF IT WASN'T RUNNING A SAMPLE?
DANIEL EDLIN: IF IT WASN'T RUNNING A SAMPLE, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT IT WOULD DO.
MR. BOSTIC: IF A SAMPLE WAS PUT INTO THE DEVICE THAT WAS SET TO RUN THE NULL PROTOCOL, WOULD IT ACTUALLY CONDUCT THE SAMPLE AND -- I'M SORRY, LET ME START AGAIN. IF A BLOOD SAMPLE WAS PUT INTO A DEVICE THAT WAS SET TO RUN THE NULL PROTOCOL, WOULD THE DEVICE ACTUALLY ANALYZE THE BLOOD?
DANIEL EDLIN: I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
MR. BOSTIC: THIS EMAIL SAYS "PLAN A IS TO HAVE BOTH DEVICES ABLE TO RUN NULL PROTOCOLS. "PLAN B IS TO HAVE THE 4S ABLE TO RUN A CBC, IF POSSIBLE." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHY WAS THERE THE NEED FOR ALTERNATIVE PLANS HERE AND WHY DOES IT SAY THAT THE 4S MIGHT BE ABLE TO RUN A CBC, IF POSSIBLE?
DANIEL EDLIN: AT THIS TIME ENGINEERING TEAMS WERE -- I THINK IT WAS UNSURE WHETHER OR NOT THE DEVICE WAS CAPABLE OF RUNNING THE CBC. SO IF IT WAS CAPABLE, THEN IT WOULD RUN THAT. THAT'S WHY IT SAYS "IF POSSIBLE." IF NOT, THEN THE DEVICE WOULD NOT RUN THE CBC.
MR. BOSTIC: CONTINUING IN YOUR EMAIL. YOU SAY, "MOST LIKELY WE WILL COLLECT A NUMBER OF SAMPLES AND STORE THEM IN THE SHIPPING CONTAINER LIKE THE LAST MEETING WE HAD, AND THEN PROCESS THEM SEPARATELY IN THE LAB." IS THAT RIGHT?
DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT.
MR. BOSTIC: IN THIS CASE, WHERE WOULD THE ACTUAL ANALYSIS HAPPEN? WAS THE SAMPLE BEING TESTED IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM?
DANIEL EDLIN: IN, IN THAT SCENARIO. SO THE SCENARIO IN WHICH A NUMBER OF SAMPLES WERE STORED IN A SHIPPING CONTAINER AND THEN PROCESSED SEPARATELY IN THE LAB, THAT -- IN THAT SCENARIO, THE SAMPLES WOULD BE PROCESSED IN THE LAB AS OPPOSED TO IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM ITSELF.
MR. BOSTIC: LET'S LOOK AT -- CONTINUING IN THIS EMAIL CHAIN, GO TO PAGE 1 AND ZOOM IN ON THE BOTTOM HALF. ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SCREEN THERE, DO YOU SEE AN EMAIL FROM MICHAEL CRAIG?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO WAS MICHAEL CRAIG AT THERANOS?
DANIEL EDLIN: MICHAEL WAS A SOFTWARE DEVELOPER, I BELIEVE.
MR. BOSTIC: HE RESPONDS TO THIS EMAIL THREAD TO SAY, "I WOULD RECOMMEND THE DEMO APP, ALTHOUGH EITHER WOULD WORK. THE DEMO APP MERELY SHIELDS PROTOCOL FAILURES FROM THE CLIENT." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT MEANT?
DANIEL EDLIN: MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE DEMO APP WOULD BE USED IN TECHNOLOGY DEMONSTRATIONS AND IF, DURING THE PROCESSING, AN ERROR OCCURRED, THIS APP WOULD NOT SAY ON THE SCREEN, IT WOULD NOT EXPRESS THAT AN ERROR HAD TAKEN PLACE. I THINK IT WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, RUNNING OR PROCESSING OR INITIALIZING.
MR. BOSTIC: SO EVEN IN THE INDICATION OF AN ERROR THAT PREVENTED THE MACHINE FROM RETURNING A RESULT, IT WOULD APPEAR TO BE STILL WORKING ON THE RESULT. IS THAT A FAIR DESCRIPTION?
DANIEL EDLIN: RIGHT. AND, AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH THE DEVICE, FOR EXAMPLE, IF NO CARTRIDGE WAS INSERTED OR IF A CARTRIDGE WAS INSERTED, THE DEVICE WOULD EFFECTIVELY SHOW A SIMILAR STATUS ON THE SCREEN.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. YOU RESPOND TO THAT EMAIL AND YOU SAY, "NEVER A BAD THING. LET'S GO WITH DEMO, THANKS." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHY DID YOU THINK THE DEMO APP WOULD BE THE BEST CHOICE FOR THIS PARTICULAR DEMONSTRATION?
DANIEL EDLIN: WELL, MICHAEL RECOMMENDED TO ME THAT THAT APP SHOULD BE USED AND I TRUSTED HIS RECOMMENDATION HERE. AND THAT'S THE MAIN REASON WHY I AGREED THAT THAT SHOULD BE USED.
MR. BOSTIC: IN THE NEXT EMAIL DANIEL YOUNG WRITES TO THE GROUP TO SAY, "WE HAVE RE-ALLOCATED THE 4S DEVICES, SO THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR PREPARING TO RUN CBC FOR THIS DEMO, UNFORTUNATELY." DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)
MR. BOSTIC: I'M SORRY. WE JUST NEED AN AUDIBLE ANSWER FOR THE COURT REPORTER.
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: DOES THAT MEAN THAT ACTUALLY HAVING THE DEVICE RUN THE TEST IN THE ROOM WOULD NO LONGER BE AN OPTION?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: LET'S ZOOM IN ON THE TOP HALF OF THIS PAGE, PLEASE. OKAY. MR. EDLIN, DO YOU SEE THAT YOU THEN RESPOND AND ASK WHEN THE 4S AND MINILAB WERE SCHEDULED TO BE MOVED TO THE INTERVIEW ROOM?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND THE ANSWER FROM SUMARTHA ANEKAL IS THAT THE ASSAY TEAMS ARE PLANNING ON USING THE 3.5 DEVICES TOMORROW. DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND SAMARTHA ANEKAL SAYS, "I WILL HAVE A BETTER IDEA AFTER LOOKING AT THE TSH DATA FROM TODAY IF WE CAN RUN THE TSH ASSAY." DO YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT WAS REFERRING TO?
DANIEL EDLIN: NO.
MR. BOSTIC: THE DATE OF THIS EMAIL IS AUGUST 13TH, 2013. DO YOU SEE THAT?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WAS THIS A MONTH OR LESS UNTIL THERANOS BEGAN OFFERING TESTING SERVICES?
DANIEL EDLIN: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: I'LL ASK YOU TO TURN TO -- ACTUALLY, YOUR HONOR, IF THE COURT WANTED TO BREAK AT 1:00, I'M ABOUT TO SWITCH TO A DIFFERENT EXHIBIT.
JUDGE DAVILA: MAYBE -- AND IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WILL TAKE LONGER THAN THE TIME WE HAVE LEFT?
MR. BOSTIC: I BELIEVE SO, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. WE'LL CREATE SOME EFFICIENCIES HERE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'LL BREAK THEN FOR THE WEEKEND. PLEASE RECALL THE ADMONITION THAT I'LL GIVE YOU ONCE AGAIN. OVER THE WEEKEND, PLEASE DO NOT DO ANY RESEARCH ABOUT ANYTHING INVOLVED WITH THIS CASE OR ANYONE INVOLVED WITH IT. PLEASE AVOID ANY MEDIA, SOCIAL MEDIA, NEWS MEDIA, RADIO, TELEVISION, OR OTHER CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE CASE WITH YOUR FAMILY, FRIENDS, OR OTHERS. DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE CASE. DO NOT MAKE ANY DECISIONS OR EVEN ATTEMPT TO BEGIN DELIBERATIONS ABOUT THIS CASE AT ALL. REMEMBER, YOU'RE NOT PERMITTED TO DO THAT UNTIL THE CASE IS OVER AND YOU ARE COLLECTIVELY IN THE JURY DELIBERATION ROOM WITH YOUR FELLOW JURORS. ONLY THEN WILL YOU BEGIN TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE EVIDENCE IN THE CASE. WITH THAT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I WILL THANK YOU. ENJOY YOUR WEEKEND. I UNDERSTAND -- I THOUGHT I HEARD SOMETHING ON THE RADIO THIS MORNING THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING PRECIOUS CALLED RAIN THIS WEEKEND. SO I HOPE IT COMES. I HOPE YOU ENJOY THAT.
(LAUGHTER.)
JUDGE DAVILA: AND HAVE A GOOD, RESTFUL WEEKEND. WE'LL SEE YOU ON TUESDAY NEXT, TUESDAY AT 9:00 A.M. WE'LL START. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR SERVICE AT ALL, OR SCHEDULING ISSUES, WOULD YOU PLEASE CONTINUE TO CONTACT MS. KRATZMANN ABOUT THAT INFORMATION? THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. AND I WILL SHARE THAT INFORMATION THAT WE RECEIVE WITH COUNSEL AND WE CAN SCHEDULE ACCORDINGLY. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. ENJOY YOUR WEEKEND. THANK YOU. SIR, YOU CAN STAND DOWN. WE'LL SEE YOU ON TUESDAY AT 9:00 O'CLOCK.
(JURY OUT AT 12:59 P.M.)
JUDGE DAVILA: MR. EDLIN, YOU CAN STAND DOWN. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT OUR JURY HAS LEFT FOR THE WEEKEND. THE WITNESS HAS LEFT THE COURTROOM. ALL COUNSEL AND MS. HOLMES ARE PRESENT. ANYTHING FURTHER BEFORE WE BREAK FOR THE WEEKEND, COUNSEL?
MR. SCHENK: NOT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
MR. DOWNEY: NOTHING FROM THE DEFENSE, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ENJOY YOUR WEEKENDS. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. THANK YOU.
MR. SCHENK: THANK YOU.
COURT CLERK: COURT IS ADJOURNED.
(COURT ADJOURNED AT 1:01 P.M.)