Erin Tompkins — Cross (Continued)

MS. TREFZ: I DO, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.

MS. TREFZ: GOOD MORNING, MS. TOMPKINS.

MS. TREFZ: I JUST HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU TODAY. IF WE CAN BRING UP EXHIBIT 5484, WHICH IS AN EXHIBIT, AND PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT THE BIRTH DATE IS REDACTED. THANK YOU. MS. TOMPKINS, DO YOU REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS TEST WITH THE GOVERNMENT YESTERDAY?

MS. TREFZ: THIS WAS A TEST FROM THIS SUMMER; CORRECT?

MS. TREFZ: AND WAS THIS A TEST THAT THE GOVERNMENT ASKED YOU TO GET?

MS. TREFZ: DID --

MS. TREFZ: GO AHEAD.

MS. TREFZ: ANOTHER TEST TO BRING INTO EVIDENCE?

MS. TREFZ: DID THEY GIVE YOU RECOMMENDATIONS AS TO POTENTIAL PLACES TO GO GET SUCH A TEST?

MS. TREFZ: THAT WAS AGENT HERNANDEZ; IS THAT CORRECT?

MS. TREFZ: OKAY. DID THEY GIVE YOU -- DID THE GOVERNMENT GIVE YOU RECOMMENDATIONS OF WHAT KIND OF TEST TO GET IN TERMS OF WHETHER IT NEEDED TO BE A PARTICULAR -- RUN ON A PARTICULAR TYPE OF DEVICE OR DRAWN OR TAKEN IN A PARTICULAR METHOD?

MS. TREFZ: AND WHAT METHOD WAS THIS TEST TAKEN BY?

MS. TREFZ: YOUR THERANOS TEST IN 2015, WAS THAT TAKEN BY A VEIN DRAW?

MS. TREFZ: OKAY. I WANTED TO -- WE CAN TAKE THAT EXHIBIT DOWN. IF WE CAN BRING UP 5483. IF WE CAN GO TO THE PAGE WITH THE FOUR HIV RESULTS, WHICH I THINK IS A COUPLE PAGES IN. THIS -- THANK YOU. ONE MORE BACK. IF YOU CAN BLOW UP FOR ME, MR. BENNETT, JUST THE HIV PORTION OF THAT. MS. TOMPKINS, DID YOU END UP LEARNING THROUGH ANY CONVERSATIONS WITH EITHER THERANOS OR ANOTHER SOURCE, DID YOU END UP LEARNING ABOUT THE REASON FOR THE FOUR DIFFERENT TESTS?

MS. TREFZ: DID YOU END UP LEARNING ABOUT THE PROCESS OF HIV TESTING?

MS. TREFZ: DID YOU HAPPEN TO LEARN ABOUT -- DID THERANOS TELL YOU ABOUT THE CDC ALGORITHM FOR HIV TESTING?

MS. TREFZ: AND LET ME SEE IF I CAN JUST REFRESH YOU A LITTLE BIT. I THINK THAT YOU, I THINK THAT YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU HAD A FIRST PHONE CALL WHEN YOU CALLED INTO THERANOS; CORRECT?

MS. TREFZ: AND I BELIEVE YOU RECALLED THAT THERE WAS -- IT WAS A FEMALE, YOU SAID SHE, A FEMALE CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE?

MS. TREFZ: THANK YOU. I MAKE THAT MISTAKE AS WELL. WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION IF I SAID IT WAS -- WAS IT LAUREN TSUGAWA?

MS. TREFZ: THAT'S FINE. DID YOU ASK HER -- DO YOU RECALL WHETHER YOU ASKED HER FOR A CALL BACK TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU TESTED NONREACTIVE FOR HIV 1 AND 2, NOT DETECTED FOR HIV 1 RNA, BUT NONREACTIVE FOR HIV 1 AND 2?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU RECALL WHETHER YOU HAD ANOTHER CONVERSATION WITH THERANOS?

MS. TREFZ: YOU DON'T RECALL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER?

MS. TREFZ: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MS. TREFZ: LET ME SEE IF I CAN JUST REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION. MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

MS. TREFZ: (HANDING.) MS. TOMPKINS, I'VE HANDED YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS EXHIBIT 14259. THIS IS NOT A DOCUMENT THAT YOU ARE ON, BUT I WONDERED IF YOU COULD READ THE DOCUMENT. IT'S AN EMAIL CHAIN, AND IF YOU CAN READ THE DOCUMENT FROM THE BOTTOM UP AND THEN SEE IF IT REFRESHES -- AND THEN I WILL ASK YOU WHETHER IT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION. PLEASE DON'T READ ANY PART OF IT OUT LOUD TO THE COURT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON THIS ISSUE.

MS. TREFZ: SO THEN I'M GOING TO ASK YOU SOME VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, SO, AGAIN, YOU WON'T READ FROM THE DOCUMENT.

MS. TREFZ: DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT YOU -- THAT YOU SPOKE WITH AN INDIVIDUAL NAMED DAN FLOREY FROM THERANOS?

MS. TREFZ: AND WHAT DO YOU RECALL ABOUT THAT SECOND CONVERSATION?

MS. TREFZ: DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT MR. FLOREY WALKED YOU THROUGH THE CDC RECOMMENDATIONS ON TESTING FOR HIV?

MS. TREFZ: IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO?

MS. TREFZ: I CAN -- I HAVE ANOTHER DOCUMENT THAT MAY HELP WHETHER YOU -- THAT MAY HELP REFRESH OR MAY NOT. BUT LET ME TRY ONE MORE, UNLESS YOU'RE STILL THINKING ABOUT THE PRIOR QUESTION?

MS. TREFZ: OKAY. MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

MS. TREFZ: (HANDING.) AND, MS. TOMPKINS, FOR THE RECORD, I'VE HANDED YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED EXHIBIT 12692. AND, AGAIN, THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE I'M GOING TO JUST POINT YOU TO A PARTICULAR PART. YOU'RE WELCOME TO LOOK AT WHATEVER YOU NEED IN THE DOCUMENT. YOU'RE JUST GOING TO READ IT TO YOURSELF, AND THEN WE'LL ASK QUESTIONS TO SEE IF IT REFRESHES YOU. IF I CAN GET YOU TO TURN TO PAGE 7 OF THE DOCUMENT.

MS. TREFZ: AND IF YOU CAN -- DO YOU SEE THERE'S A BOX ON THERE, BOX 1, PAGE 7?

MS. TREFZ: AND IF YOU COULD TAKE A -- READ THROUGH THAT AND THEN, ONCE YOU'RE FINISHED, LET ME KNOW.

MS. TREFZ: THERE'S NO NEED TO READ THE DOCUMENT. THE SIMPLE QUESTION IS, DOES THIS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU WERE TOLD ABOUT THE CDC ALGORITHM FOR HIV TESTING?

MS. TREFZ: OKAY. DO YOU -- DOES IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION ABOUT ANYTHING, LEARNING ANYTHING ABOUT THE CDC ALGORITHM FOR HIV TESTING?

MS. TREFZ: YOU'RE NOT A DOCTOR; RIGHT?

MS. TREFZ: WHAT DO YOU RECALL ABOUT THE COMPONENTS THAT YOU MENTIONED?

MS. TREFZ: DID YOU -- SORRY. DID YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHETHER THE HIV 1 PLUS 2 AB WAS A SCREENING TEST? EXCUSE ME. OR -- AND THE ADDITIONAL TESTS WERE CONFIRMATORY TESTS?

MS. TREFZ: AND DID YOU END UP ASKING DR. ASIN FOR ADVICE ON THAT QUESTION?

MS. TREFZ: AND I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT HERE. SO HERE IT SAYS HIV 1 PLUS 2 AB AS REACTIVE. AND IF WE CAN BRING BACK UP 5484 FOR A SECOND AND JUST HIGHLIGHT THE NEGATIVE THERE.

MS. TREFZ: AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE, THE -- 5483, YOUR TEST FROM THERANOS, THE FIRST LEVEL, OR THE HIV 1 PLUS 2 AB WAS REACTIVE, AND THIS TEST SAYS NEGATIVE; CORRECT?

MS. TREFZ: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO SEEK TO ADMIT EXHIBIT 12692, WHICH IS A PUBLIC RECORD. AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF COUNSEL AND THE COURT, I WOULD JUST NOTE THAT THE ONLY PART THAT I AM INTERESTED IN DISPLAYING IS NUMBER 7, PAGE 7.

MS. TREFZ: I AM, YOUR HONOR. AND I BELIEVE THIS SHOULD BE A SELF-AUTHENTICATING DOCUMENT. IT'S FROM THE CDC'S WEBSITE.

MS. TREFZ: I UNDERSTAND. BUT IN LIGHT OF POTENTIAL ADDITIONAL EVENTS, I BELIEVE THAT IT IS RELEVANT TO UNDERSTANDING THE ACCURACY AND --

MS. TREFZ: THANK YOU.

MS. TREFZ: IF WE CAN PUBLISH PAGE 7. THANK YOU.

MS. TREFZ: AND, MS. TOMPKINS, DO YOU SEE HERE -- IS THIS PAGE 7 OF THE DOCUMENT THAT I HAD HANDED YOU THAT WE WERE JUST --

MS. TREFZ: THANK YOU. AND DO YOU SEE AT THE TOP IT SAYS RECOMMENDED LABORATORY HIV TESTING ALGORITHM FOR SERUM OR PLASMA SPECIMENS?

MS. TREFZ: THANK YOU. AND DO YOU SEE THAT THE FIRST LEVEL IS HIV 1/2 ANTIGEN/ANTIBODY COMBINATION IMMUNOASSAY?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHETHER THAT WAS THE HIV 1 PLUS 2 AB THAT YOU SAW IN YOUR THERANOS TEST RESULT?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE THAT THERE'S AN ARROW POINTING TO A PLUS SIGN THERE ON THE PAGE?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE THAT IF THE ARROW, THAT IF THERE'S AN ARROW POINTING FROM THE PLUS SIDE TO A FURTHER IDENTIFICATION HIV 1, HIV 2, ANTIBODY DIFFERENTIATION IMMUNOASSAY?

MS. TREFZ: AND WE ALREADY DISCUSSED YOU DON'T KNOW THE MEANING OF THESE PARTICULAR STEPS; CORRECT?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE THAT THERE ARE VARIOUS POTENTIAL OPTIONS, ARROWS COMING OUT FROM THAT STEP?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE ON THE PLUS -- ON THE BOTTOM OF THE BOX ON THE LEFT IT INDICATES -- THE PLUS SIGN INDICATES A REACTIVE TEST RESULT AND THE NEGATIVE INDICATES A NONREACTIVE TEST RESULT?

MS. TREFZ: AND THEN IF WE GO OVER TO THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, DO YOU SEE THAT IT SAYS HIV-1 NEGATIVE OR INDETERMINATE, AND HIV-2 NEGATIVE?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU ALSO SEE THAT IF THAT HAPPENS, THEN THERE'S AN ARROW POINTING DOWN TO HIV 1 NAT?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE THAT ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE THERE'S AN ARROW POINTING DOWN THAT SAYS HIV 1 NAT NEGATIVE? AND -- DO YOU SEE THAT? I'M SORRY.

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE THAT IT SAYS UNDER THAT, NEGATIVE FOR HIV?

MS. TREFZ: AND IS THAT THE END OF THE BOX?

MS. TREFZ: AND IF WE CAN COME OUT OF THE BOX AND COME DOWN TO -- AND JUST SHOW THERE ARE A BUNCH OF NUMBERS ON THE BOTTOM. DO YOU SEE THAT NUMBER 1 SAYS, "LABORATORIES SHOULD CONDUCT INITIAL TESTING FOR HIV WITH AN FDA-APPROVED ANTIGEN/ANTIBODY COMBINATION IMMUNOASSAY THAT DETECTS HIV-1 AND HIV-2 ANTIBODIES AND HIV-1 P24 ANTIGEN TO SCREEN FOR ESTABLISHED INFECTION WITH HIV-1 OR HIV-2 AND FOR ACUTE HIV-1 INFECTION." AND DO YOU SEE THAT SECTION?

MS. TREFZ: AND DO YOU SEE THAT "NO FURTHER TESTING IS REQUIRED FOR SPECIMENS THAT ARE NONREACTIVE TO THE INITIAL IMMUNOASSAY"? DO YOU SEE THAT IT SAYS THAT?

MS. TREFZ: AND THEN DO YOU SEE IN NUMBER 2 IT SAYS, "SPECIMENS WITH A REACTIVE ANTIGEN/ANTIBODY COMBINATION IMMUNOASSAY RESULT (OR REPEATEDLY REACTIVE, IF REPEAT TESTING IS RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER OR REQUIRED BY REGULATORY AUTHORITIES) SHOULD BE TESTED," WITH FURTHER STEPS. DO YOU SEE THAT?

MS. TREFZ: THANK YOU. AND THAT'S -- THOSE ARE ALL OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ON THAT PARTICULAR DOCUMENT. GIVE ME JUST A SECOND AND I MAY BE DONE. DO YOU KNOW, FROM YOUR PHONE CALL WITH THERANOS, WHETHER HIV TESTING AT THERANOS WAS RUN ON FDA CLEARED COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE TESTS, METHODS?

MS. TREFZ: OKAY. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

MS. TREFZ: YES, YOUR HONOR.