Roberto Amenta — Direct/Cross (Continued)
145 linesJUDGE DAVILA: GOOD MORNING AGAIN. LET ME ASK MY QUESTION AGAIN OF YOU. DID ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY OCCASION TO DISCUSS THIS CASE WITH ANYONE, COME ACROSS ANY MEDIA, SOCIAL OR OTHERWISE, SUCH THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO INFORM ME NOW ABOUT THAT CONTACT? IF SO, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. I SEE NO HANDS. THANK YOU. A COUPLE OF OTHER JUST HOUSEKEEPING MATTERS. FIRST OF ALL, WE HAD DISCUSSION, AS YOU KNOW, EACH OF YOU HAD DISCUSSION WITH ME IN MY CHAMBERS ABOUT THE QUESTIONNAIRES, AND I BELIEVE MS. KRATZMANN INFORMED YOU THAT WERE YOU NOT TO DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES. THAT'S THE SAME ADMONITION ABOUT NOT DISCUSSING ANYTHING ABOUT THE CASE WITH EACH OTHER, THAT IS, ANY OF THE EVIDENCE, ANYTHING AT ALL. YOU MAY ONLY DO THAT ONCE THE CASE HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR YOUR DELIBERATIONS. THE SAME APPLIES, I JUST WANT TO RATIFY MS. KRATZMANN'S COMMENT TO YOU, YOU'RE NOT TO DISCUSS ANYTHING THAT WE DISCUSSED IN OUR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE QUESTIONNAIRES WITH EACH OTHER AS WELL. THE OTHER HOUSEKEEPING MATTER IS THAT THIS AFTERNOON, I THINK ABOUT 1:00 O'CLOCK, CLOSER TO 1:30, THAT SOME OF THESE LAWYERS NEED TO ATTEND. IT INVOLVES AN EVIDENTIARY MATTER. BUT THEY NEED TO ATTEND TO THAT, AND THEY MAY GET UP AND LEAVE THE COURTROOM. I HAVE GIVEN THEM PERMISSION TO DO SO. SO IF YOU SEE THEM LEAVE, THAT'S THE REASON WHY. THEY HAVE ANOTHER COURT APPEARANCE TO ATTEND TO, AND THEY WILL TRY TO MAKE THAT -- AND THEY WILL TRY TO MAKE THEIR DEPARTURE AS QUIET AS POSSIBLE. BUT THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT. THANK YOU FOR THAT. ANYTHING, COUNSEL, BEFORE WE BEGIN?
MR. SCHENK: NO, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. MR. BOSTIC, YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE?
MR. BOSTIC: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
(GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, ROBERTO AMENTA, WAS PREVIOUSLY SWORN.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: WELCOME BACK, MR. AMENTA.
ROBERTO AMENTA: THANK YOU.
MR. BOSTIC: WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD?
ROBERTO AMENTA: SURE. IT'S ROBERTO, LAST NAME AMENTA, A-M-E-N-T-A.
MR. BOSTIC: AND DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE STILL UNDER OATH?
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: WHEN WE LEFT OFF YESTERDAY, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EXHIBIT 4845, WHICH IS IN EVIDENCE. IF WE CAN CALL THAT UP AND GO TO PAGE 18. MR. AMENTA, GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU'VE REVIEWED PAGES 18 THROUGH 24 OF EXHIBIT 4845 IN THE PAST?
ROBERTO AMENTA: I HAVE.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WE'LL GET INTO SOME OF THE DETAILS OF WHAT IS ON THESE PAGES, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHAT IS ON EACH PAGE OF THIS DOCUMENT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: A FEDWIRE FUNDS TRANSFER.
MR. BOSTIC: AND EACH PAGE IS A DIFFERENT FEDWIRE FUNDS TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CORRECT. THERE'S A REFERENCE TO AN IMAD AND AN OMAD, I-M-A-D, O-M-A-D. THAT IS AN INCOMING MESSAGE ACCOUNTABILITY DATA, AND OUTGOING MESSAGE ACCOUNTABILITY DATA, AND THAT'S UNIQUE TO FEDWIRE.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WE'RE LOOKING ON THE SCREEN AT PAGE 18 OF EXHIBIT 4845. DO YOU SEE THE OMAD AND IMAD NUMBERS REFERENCED ON THIS PAGE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: I DO.
MR. BOSTIC: AND HOW DOES FEDWIRE USE THOSE NUMBERS?
ROBERTO AMENTA: SO IT'S -- THE IMAD FOR THE SENDING BANK, IT'S THE YEAR, MONTH, DAY OF THE TRANSACTION, AND THEN IT IS THE END POINT OF THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION, OR IN POINT OF THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTION, AND THEN WHAT MESSAGE IT IS FOR THAT DAY AND FOR THAT INSTITUTION. SO THAT'S THE IMAD. AND FOR THE OMAD, IT'S THE YEAR, MONTH, DAY, SO IT'S THE BANK'S END POINT. IT IS WHAT MESSAGE IT IS FOR THAT DAY. IT'S THE DATE, AND THEN IT'S THE TIME 13:58. AND THEN REFERENCE TO FT03 IS THE DALLAS.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. I SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED, IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH TESTIFYING WITHOUT A MASK, YOU CAN REMOVE IT.
ROBERTO AMENTA: THANK YOU.
MR. BOSTIC: THE OMAD AND IMAD NUMBERS, DOES FEDWIRE EVER REUSE THOSE NUMBERS? IN OTHER WORDS, COULD TWO DIFFERENT TRANSACTIONS EVER HAVE THE SAME OMAD OR IMAD NUMBER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THEY'RE UNIQUE FOR THE TRANSACTION.
MR. BOSTIC: LOOKING AT PAGE 18 HERE, FOR THIS TRANSACTION WE ARE LOOKING AT, WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: SO IT'S DECEMBER 30TH OF 2013.
MR. BOSTIC: AND IS THERE A PORTION OF THE OMAD AND IMAD THAT GIVES YOU THAT INFORMATION?
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THE AMOUNT OF THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE AMOUNT IS FIELD TAG 2000, AND IT'S $99,990.
MR. BOSTIC: AND FROM THIS INFORMATION, WHO SENT THIS WIRE TRANSFER OF $99,990?
ROBERTO AMENTA: SURE. SO IT'S THE SENDING BANK -- THE SENDING BANK, THE 3100 FIELD IS WELLS FARGO, AND THEY DID IT ON BEHALF OF ALAN JAY EISENMAN AND CHARLES SCHWAB.
MR. BOSTIC: AND FINALLY, WHO WAS THIS TRANSFERRED TO ON THIS DATE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE RECEIVING BANK IS COMERICA, AND IT WAS ON BEHALF OF THERANOS.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. LET'S GO TO THE NEXT PAGE, THAT'S EXHIBIT 19 OF 4845. IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THE CONTENT. MR. AMENTA, DO YOU SEE ANOTHER DOCUMENT RELATED TO ANOTHER FEDWIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THIS TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: DECEMBER 31ST, 2013.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF THIS TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE AMOUNT IS $5,349,900.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO SENT THIS WIRE TRANSFER IN THE AMOUNT OF APPROXIMATELY $5.3 MILLION?
ROBERTO AMENTA: SO THE SENDING BANK, WHILE IT'S NOT IN ITS SHORT FORM NAME, IT'S THE ABA NUMBER, ROUTING NUMBER FOR PACIFIC WESTERN, SO THAT'S THE SENDER, ABA (3100) ON BEHALF OF BLACK DIAMOND VENTURES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND HOW ABOUT THE RECIPIENT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: AGAIN, THAT ABA ROUTING FOR THE RECEIVER IS COMERICA ON BEHALF OF THERANOS.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. LET'S TURN TO THE NEXT PAGE, WHICH IS PAGE 20. IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THE CONTENT HERE. MR. AMENTA, IS THIS INFORMATION RELATING TO A SEPARATE WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: IT IS. THIS IS ALSO DATED DECEMBER 31ST, 2013.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. AND IN WHAT AMOUNT WAS THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE AMOUNT FOR THIS TRANSACTION IS $4,875,000.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO SENT THIS APPROXIMATELY $4.9 MILLION TRANSACTION ON THAT DATE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: TEXAS CAPITAL BANK ON BEHALF OF HALL PHOENIX/INWOOD LDT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND THE RECIPIENT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE RECIPIENT IS COMERICA ON BEHALF OF THERANOS.
MR. BOSTIC: THANK YOU. LET'S TURN NOW TO THE NEXT PAGE, PAGE 21. IF WE CAN ZOOM IN. ON PAGE 21, DO YOU SEE DETAILS FOR ANOTHER FEDWIRE TRANSMITTAL?
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES. THE DATE FOR THIS ONE IS FEBRUARY 6TH, 2014.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHAT WAS THE AMOUNT OF THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE AMOUNT IS $38,336,632.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. AND WHO SENT THIS $38.3 MILLION TRANSFER ON THAT DATE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CITIBANK ON BEHALF OF GOLDMAN SACHS AND PFM HEALTH CARE.
MR. BOSTIC: AND FINALLY, THE RECIPIENT FOR THIS ONE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE RECIPIENT IS COMERICA ON BEHALF OF THERANOS.
MR. BOSTIC: OKAY. THANK YOU. LET'S GO TO PAGE 22. IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THIS CONTENT. MR. AMENTA, FOR THE WIRE TRANSFER ON PAGE 22, WHAT WAS THE DATE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: OCTOBER 31ST OF 2014.
MR. BOSTIC: AND THE AMOUNT OF THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: $99,999,984.
MR. BOSTIC: AND FINALLY, WHO WERE THE SENDER AND RECIPIENT FOR THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: SO NORTHERN CHICAGO ON BEHALF LAKESHORE CAPITOL MANAGEMENT AND DYNASTY FINANCIAL.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHO IS THE RECIPIENT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: AND THE RECIPIENT IS COMERICA ON BEHALF OF THERANOS.
MR. BOSTIC: AND THE FINAL PAGE IS 23. LET'S LOOK AT THAT. MR. AMENTA, IF YOU COULD WALK US THROUGH THIS ONE. WHAT ARE THE RELEVANT DETAILS OF THIS WIRE TRANSFER?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THE DATE IS OCTOBER 31ST OF 2014. THE AMOUNT IS $5,999,997. THE SENDING AND THE ORIGINATOR IS JP MORGAN CHASE, AND THE MOSLEY FAMILY HOLDINGS, AND THE BENEFICIARY IS COMERICA BANK FOR THERANOS.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WE JUST LOOKED AT DETAILS FOR SIX SEPARATE WIRE TRANSFERS; IS THAT CORRECT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND EACH OF THOSE SIX WIRE TRANSFERS USED THE FEDWIRE SYSTEM; IS THAT CORRECT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER ABOUT THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS AND THE PROCESS NEEDED TO EXECUTE A FEDWIRE WIRE TRANSFER IN 2013, 2014. DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY?
ROBERTO AMENTA: I DO.
MR. BOSTIC: IS IT POSSIBLE FOR -- OR WAS IT POSSIBLE FOR A FEDWIRE MONEY TRANSFER DURING THAT TIME PERIOD TO OCCUR WITHOUT AN INTERSTATE WIRE COMMUNICATION?
MR. BOSTIC: DID EACH OF THESE SIX WIRE TRANSFERS THEN NECESSARILY INVOLVE A WIRE COMMUNICATION ACROSS STATE LINES?
ROBERTO AMENTA: IT DID BETWEEN TEXAS AND NEW JERSEY.
MR. BOSTIC: BETWEEN THOSE TWO FEDWIRE FACILITIES?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: IN FRONT OF YOU, DO YOU STILL HAVE A FEW EXHIBITS? IF SO, I'LL ASK YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT NUMBER 5428.
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: DO YOU HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF YOU?
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES.
MR. BOSTIC: AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE CONTENT, WHAT IS EXHIBIT 5428?
ROBERTO AMENTA: IT'S A FEDWIRE FUNDS MESSAGE.
MR. BOSTIC: AND HAVE YOU REVIEWED 5428 BEFORE?
ROBERTO AMENTA: I HAVE.
MR. BOSTIC: YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT MOVES TO ADMIT 5428.
MS. TREFZ: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5428 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
BY MR. BOSTIC:
MR. BOSTIC: MR. AMENTA, DO YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN NOW THE DETAILS OF THAT WIRE TRANSFER IN EXHIBIT 5428?
ROBERTO AMENTA: I DO.
MR. BOSTIC: ON WHAT DATE WAS THIS WIRE TRANSMITTAL SENT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: AUGUST 3RD OF 2015. IT'S IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,126,661. THE SENDING SIDE, THE SENDER FINANCIAL INSTITUTION WAS WELLS FARGO ON BEHALF OF THERANOS, AND THE RECEIVING INSTITUTION WAS JP MORGAN CHASE ON BEHALF OF HORIZON MEDIA, INC.
MR. BOSTIC: SO UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS TRANSACTIONS WE LOOKED AT, THIS ONE IS GOING FROM THERANOS TO A THIRD PARTY?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THEY'RE THE ORIGINATOR INSTEAD OF THE BENEFICIARY, CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: AND YOU PREVIOUSLY TOLD US ABOUT THE FEDWIRE TRANSFERS IN 2013 AND 2014. THIS TRANSFER WAS IN 2015. WAS THE PROCESS DIFFERENT AT THAT TIME?
ROBERTO AMENTA: IT STILL REQUIRED THE SAME TWO PROCESSING CENTERS. WHAT CHANGED IN NOVEMBER 10TH OF 2014 WAS THAT THE PRIMARY SITE ALTERNATED, SO IT WOULD EITHER BE NEW JERSEY OR DALLAS THAT WOULD BE THE PRIMARY SITE. THE SECOND PART THAT CHANGED WAS THE PROCESS FOR IT WOULD CHANGE. SO IN THE EARLIER TIME PERIOD, APRIL 27TH, '09, PRE-DECEMBER 2014, THE DALLAS WOULD SEND IT TO THE NEW JERSEY FACILITY FOR PROCESSING. POST THAT NOVEMBER 2014 DATE, THE PROCESSING WOULD BE THE PRIMARY SITE WOULD SEND IT TO THE SECONDARY SITE FOR ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, AND THEN THE PRIMARY SITE WOULD THEN, AFTER RECEIVING ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, DO THE DEBITING AND CREDITING AND SENDING THE ADVICES TO THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS.
MR. BOSTIC: AND WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE TWO FEDWIRE FACILITIES COMMUNICATING WITH EACH OTHER IN THE 2015 TIMEFRAME, ARE THOSE AUTOMATED WIRE COMMUNICATIONS?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CORRECT.
MR. BOSTIC: IN THE 2015 TIMEFRAME THEN, AND SPECIFICALLY IN AUGUST OF 2015, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR THIS WIRE TRANSFER TO OCCUR WITHOUT AN INTERSTATE WIRE COMMUNICATION?
MR. BOSTIC: AND THE TRANSFER THAT IS DEPICTED IN EXHIBIT 5428, WAS THAT A WIRE TRANSFER THAT USED THE FEDWIRE SYSTEM?
ROBERTO AMENTA: IT WAS.
MR. BOSTIC: A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
JUDGE DAVILA: YES.
(DISCUSSION AMONGST GOVERNMENT COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)
MR. BOSTIC: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU, MR. AMENTA.
ROBERTO AMENTA: THANK YOU.
JUDGE DAVILA: MS. TREFZ.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. TREFZ:
MS. TREFZ: HI, MR. AMENTA. MY NAME IS KATIE TREFZ. I REPRESENT MS. HOLMES.
ROBERTO AMENTA: GOOD MORNING.
MS. TREFZ: I ONLY HAVE A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
ROBERTO AMENTA: SURE.
MS. TREFZ: ONE IS, ASIDE FROM HAVING PULLED THOSE RECORDS, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE REASONS WHY THE WIRES WERE SENT; CORRECT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: OR WHO WITHIN AN ORGANIZATION AUTHORIZED THEM; CORRECT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THAT'S CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: OR FOR WHAT PURPOSE THEY WERE SENT; CORRECT?
ROBERTO AMENTA: THAT'S CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU.
ROBERTO AMENTA: THANK YOU.
MR. BOSTIC: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED?
MR. BOSTIC: YES.
JUDGE DAVILA: MS. TREFZ?
MS. TREFZ: YES.
JUDGE DAVILA: MR. AMENTA, YOU'RE EXCUSED. THANK YOU.
MR. SCHENK: YOUR HONOR, THE UNITED STATES CALLS NIMESH JHAVERI.
(PAUSE IN PROCEEDINGS.)
JUDGE DAVILA: GOOD MORNING, SIR. IF YOU WOULD COME FORWARD, PLEASE, AND FACE OUR COURTROOM DEPUTY RIGHT HERE. IF YOU WOULD RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, SHE HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU.
(GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, NIMESH JHAVERI, WAS SWORN.)
ROBERTO AMENTA: YES.
JUDGE DAVILA: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT HERE, SIR. MAKE YOURSELF COMFORTABLE. FEEL FREE TO ADJUST THE CHAIR AND MICROPHONE AS YOU NEED. I'LL ENCOURAGE YOU TO SPEAK DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE. WHEN YOU ARE COMFORTABLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND THEN SPELL IT, PLEASE.
ROBERTO AMENTA: NIMESH JHAVERI. FIRST NAME NIMESH, N-I-M-E-S-H. LAST NAME JHAVERI, J-H-A-V-E-R-I.
JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU. COUNSEL.
MR. SCHENK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.