Justin Offen — Direct/Cross (Recall)
274 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: MR. OFFEN, DO YOU STILL HAVE EXHIBIT 5387B IN FRONT OF YOU?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES, SIR.
MR. LEACH: AND I DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO PAGE 191.
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES, SIR.
MR. LEACH: YOUR HONOR, I OFFER PAGE 191.
COURT CLERK: I BELIEVE THAT'S PAGE 13 OF THE DOCUMENT, COUNSEL.
MR. LEACH: YES, THANK YOU, MS. KRATZMANN. IT'S THE BATES NUMBER PRH 191.
MS. TREFZ: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.
MR. LEACH: THERE'S NO REASON TO PUBLISH IT. I JUST WANTED IT ADMITTED.
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, PAGE 13 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: CAN YOU -- LET ME GO MORE SLOWLY. I DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO BATES NUMBER ENDING 219. AND I OFFER, YOUR HONOR, THE PAGES WITH BATES NUMBER ENDING 219 THROUGH 222.
JUDGE DAVILA: THEY'RE ADMITTED.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, PAGES 14 THROUGH 17 WERE RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN DISPLAY 219, MS. HOLLIMAN. IF YOU CAN PLEASE HIGHLIGHT THE TEXT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.
COURT CLERK: FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS PAGE 14 OF THAT EXHIBIT.
MR. LEACH: THANK YOU, MS. KRATZMANN.
MR. LEACH: WHAT IS THE DATE OF THESE TEXTS, MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: MAY 13TH, 2015.
MR. LEACH: AND BASED ON THE FORMATTING, THE BATES NUMBER AND EVERYTHING ELSE HERE, YOU BELIEVE THIS TO BE DATA FROM MS. HOLMES'S IPHONE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: AND DO YOU SEE THE MESSAGE AT THE BOTTOM, "I AM NARROWING THIS DOWN AND CLIA. DOWN TO 5 PEOPLE. WILL NAIL THIS." THEN THERE'S AN EXPLETIVE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: LET ME DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NEXT PAGE, PLEASE. THIS IS PAGE 15 OF THE DOCUMENT, BATES NUMBER 220. IF WE CAN DISPLAY THAT, MS. HOLLIMAN. IF WE COULD HIGHLIGHT THE TOP PORTION, THE RESPONSE TO THE PREVIOUS MESSAGE. DO YOU SEE WHERE IT SAYS "WHO DO U THINK," MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THE SENDER OF THE TEXT IS ELIZABETH HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND IF WE CAN GO DOWN FURTHER IN THIS DOCUMENT, MS. HOLLIMAN, TO THE THIRD CHAIN IN THE MIDDLE. DO YOU SEE THE LAST SENTENCE WHERE IT SAYS, "IT IS TYLER ERIKA AND ADAM"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND IS THIS A MESSAGE THAT APPEARS TO BE SENT BY MR. BALWANI ON MAY 13TH, 2015?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN GO PLEASE TO PAGE 16 OF THE DOCUMENTS, 221. IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THE TOP PORTION OF THIS, MS. HOLLIMAN. DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE ANOTHER TEXT STRING DATED MAY 13TH, 2015?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DO YOU SEE IN THE MESSAGE FOR THE FIRST ROW THE WORDS "SECONDLY. WE NEED A BETTER STRATEGY FOR NORMANDY. FOR A LONG TIME TO COME WE WILL HAVE HYBRID SOLUTIONS." DO YOU SEE THAT LANGUAGE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE SENT FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE THE ADMISSION OF PAGE 17 OF THE DOCUMENT -- OH, NO, PAGE 18 OF THE DOCUMENT, BATES NUMBER 238.
MS. TREFZ: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: THAT'S ADMITTED WITHOUT OBJECTION.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, PAGE 18 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: AND IF WE CAN PLEASE DISPLAY THAT, MS. HOLLIMAN. ZOOM IN ON THE BOTTOM PORTION. DO THESE APPEAR TO BE TEXT MESSAGES BETWEEN MR. BALWANI AND MS. HOLMES DATED JUNE 3RD, 2015, MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND I DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE FIRST MESSAGE. DO YOU SEE THE LANGUAGE, "WE NEED TO FOCUS ON BEING A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY. WE SPEND ALL OF OUR TIME WITH CLIA MORONS"? DO YOU SEE THAT LANGUAGE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE SENT FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES IN THIS JUNE TIME PERIOD?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN PLEASE GO TO -- I OFFER PAGE 19, EXHIBIT 5387B, BATES NUMBER ENDING 254.
MS. TREFZ: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: IT'S ADMITTED. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, PAGE 19 WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN ZOOM IN HERE ON THE ONE MESSAGE, MS. HOLLIMAN. WHAT IS THE DATE OF THIS EXCHANGE, MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: JUNE 26TH, 2015.
MR. LEACH: OKAY. AND DOES THE MESSAGE SAY, "I AM OK SENDING LETTER TO ERIKA AS IN HEATHERS EMAIL."
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DOES THIS APPEAR TO COME FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT MOVES THE ADMISSION OF PAGES OF 20 AND 21 OF EXHIBIT 5387B, BATES NUMBER 264 TO 265.
MS. TREFZ: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: THEY'RE ADMITTED, AND THEY MAY BE PUBLISHED.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, PAGES 20 AND 21, WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN PLEASE ZOOM IN, MS. HOLLIMAN -- YES, RIGHT THERE. THE FIRST SIX OR SEVEN MESSAGES. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU.
MR. LEACH: WHAT IS THE DATE OF THESE TEXT MESSAGES, MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: JULY 15TH, 2015.
MR. LEACH: OKAY. AND I DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE FIRST MESSAGE. DO YOU SEE WHERE IT SAYS, "I WORKED FOR 6 YEARS DAY AND NIGHT TO HELP YOU. I AM SAD WHERE YOU AND I ARE. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BETTER. I KNOW UR ANGRY IN UR WAY. AND UPSET WITH ME FOR NOT DOING EVERYTHING YOU WANTED ME TO DO." DO YOU SEE THAT LANGUAGE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE A MESSAGE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DO YOU SEE THE TEXT AT 4:46:31 P.M., THE FOURTH ONE DOWN, OR THE FIFTH ONE DOWN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND WOULD YOU MIND READING THIS ONE FOR US, PLEASE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: "I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING AT THERANOS. ALL HAVE BEEN MY DECISIONS TOO."
MR. LEACH: AND THAT'S FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: IF YOU COULD SKIP THE NEXT MESSAGE, AND THEN I DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE MESSAGES AT 4:46:56 P.M. DO YOU SEE THOSE TWO MESSAGES FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DOES THIS SAY, "I WON'T TRANSITION UNTIL UR IN A PERFECT PLACE. U KNOW THAT. "UR UNDERESTIMATING THE CHALLENGES AND BEING CHILDISH. I HAVE BEEN TELLING U FOR MONTHS." DO YOU SEE THAT LANGUAGE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THESE ARE MESSAGES FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: I OFFER THE REMAINING PAGES OF EXHIBIT 5387B.
MS. TREFZ: NO OBJECTION.
JUDGE DAVILA: THEY'RE ADMITTED. THEY MAY BE PUBLISHED.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, PAGES 22 THROUGH 30, WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN GO, PLEASE, MS. HOLLIMAN, TO PAGE 21 -- EXCUSE ME, 22. AND IF YOU CAN ZOOM IN ON THE TOP TWO MESSAGES.
MR. LEACH: WHAT IS THE DATE OF THESE EXCHANGES, MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: JULY 28TH, 2015.
MR. LEACH: AND IS THE TOP MESSAGE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: AND DOES IT READ, "WE NEED TO COMMIT TO EACH OTHER AND GET OUT OF THIS HELL SO WE CAN LIVE IN PARADISE WE BOTH HAVE"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DOES IT APPEAR MS. HOLMES RESPONDS, "I HAVE LITERALLY BEEN MEDITATING ON EXACT SAME. WHOLE TIME I WAS RUNNING I WAS THINKING THAT." HAVE I READ THAT CORRECTLY?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: IF WE CAN PLEASE DISPLAY, MS. HOLLIMAN, THE TEXT ON 314, WHICH IS PAGE 27 OF THE DOCUMENT.
COURT CLERK: BATES 314, COUNSEL, PAGE 26.
MR. LEACH: PAGE 27. I THINK THE REMAINDER HAVE BEEN ADMITTED. THIS IS PAGE 27.
COURT CLERK: IT REFLECTS A BATES NUMBER, COUNSEL, OF 315.
BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: WHAT ARE THE DATES OF THESE TEXT MESSAGES, MR. OFFEN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YOU SAID ON BATES 315?
MR. LEACH: YES. I BELIEVE IT'S ON YOUR SCREEN.
JUSTIN OFFEN: SEPTEMBER 22ND, 2015.
JUDGE DAVILA: IT LOOKS LIKE PAGE 26 IS ON THE SCREEN.
MR. LEACH: YES.
JUSTIN OFFEN: IT'S THE SAME DATE, BUT YEAH.
BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: OKAY. WELL, LET'S START WITH 26.
JUSTIN OFFEN: BATES 314?
MR. LEACH: YES. SO PAGE 26, BATES 314.
JUSTIN OFFEN: OKAY.
MR. LEACH: AND DO YOU SEE THE MESSAGE AT THE TOP WHERE IT SAYS, "VERY HOSTILE SO FAR. THEY SAY HAVE COMPLAINTS"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE A MESSAGE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: OKAY. AND DO YOU SEE THE TEXT MESSAGE AT 6:01 WHERE IT SAYS, "PRAYING LITERALLY NON STOP"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE FROM MS. HOLMES TO MR. BALWANI?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND NOW IF WE COULD CONTINUE TO PAGE 27, BATES NUMBER ENDING 315. AND IF WE CAN ZOOM IN ON THE TOP PORTION. ARE THESE ADDITIONAL MESSAGES FROM SEPTEMBER 22ND, 2015?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DO YOU SEE THE TOP MESSAGE WHERE IT SAYS AT 10:28:42 P.M.?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DOES THIS READ, "OUR VALIDATION REPORTS ARE TERRIBLE. REALLY PAINFUL GOING THRU THIS PROCESS. SAME ISSUES FDA POINTED OUT"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE A MESSAGE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: AND COULD I DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE BOTTOM PORTION OF THIS DOCUMENT? DO YOU SEE THE SECOND TEXT WHERE IT SAYS, "GOING BAD SO FAR. PRAY"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: AND MR. BALWANI ADDS, "DANIEL HAS NOTHING READY. "TOLD ME EVERYTHING IS IN BINDERS." DO YOU SEE THAT LANGUAGE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND DO YOU SEE MS. HOLMES'S RESPONSE AT 4:28:18, "PRAYING"?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND LET ME DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE LAST PAGE OF THIS EXHIBIT. IT'S PAGE 30, BATES NUMBER ENDING 342. WHAT IS THE DATE OF THIS MESSAGE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: OCTOBER 21ST, 2015.
MR. LEACH: AND COULD YOU PLEASE READ THE SUBSTANCE OF THE MESSAGE FOR US?
JUSTIN OFFEN: "WORRIED ABOUT YOUR 'ALL FINGERSTICKS ON OUR TECHNOLOGY' COMMENT. SENT AN EMAIL. THE WEB DOCUMENT IS FINE."
MR. LEACH: AND THIS APPEARS TO BE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MR. LEACH: AND, YOUR HONOR, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE RECORD IS CLEAR THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS OFFERED PAGES 13 THROUGH 30 OF EXHIBIT 5387B.
JUDGE DAVILA: NOT THE ENTIRETY OF THIS DOCUMENT. CAN THE ENTIRETY OF THIS DOCUMENT BE ADMITTED?
MR. LEACH: I THINK SUBJECT TO THE COURT'S PRIOR RULING ABOUT COMPLETENESS, YES. BUT I THINK SUBJECT TO THAT, THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT CAN GO IN.
JUDGE DAVILA: ANY OBJECTION TO THAT?
MS. TREFZ: NO. WE WENT THROUGH MOST OF IT, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: YES. SO I THINK IT'S CLEANER FOR THE RECORD IF THE ENTIRETY OF THE DOCUMENT IS ENTERED, 5387B, AND WHATEVER REDACTIONS NEED TO BE MADE PURSUANT TO THE COURT'S RULINGS, I'LL HAVE YOU DO THAT SO THEY CAN BE ENTERED WITH THOSE REDACTIONS.
MR. LEACH: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THAT WORKS.
JUDGE DAVILA: THANK YOU.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387B, REDACTED, WAS ADMITTED.)
BY MR. LEACH:
MR. LEACH: MR. OFFEN, LET ME -- DO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR BINDER UP THERE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: AND LET ME DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS 5387A.
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MR. LEACH: DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE A SUBSET OF TEXT MESSAGES FROM 5387?
JUSTIN OFFEN: BASED UPON THE FORMAT PAGES AND BATES NUMBERING, YES.
MR. LEACH: YOUR HONOR, THE GOVERNMENT WOULD OFFER 5387A. I UNDERSTAND THERE MIGHT BE SOME 401 AND 403 AND 802 OBJECTIONS, BUT IF THERE'S NO DISPUTE WITH RESPECT TO 901 AND 1002, WE WOULD LIKE THIS TO COME INTO EVIDENCE.
MS. TREFZ: YOUR HONOR, WE DO -- THIS IS THE FULL, THE FULLER SET, AND WE OBJECT TO -- WE'RE GOING TO OBJECT TO SOME OF THESE MATERIALS. WE ARE HAPPY TO, YOU KNOW, WORK OUT SOME OF THE SPECIFICS. BUT WE DO NOT HAVE AN AUTHENTICITY OBJECTION TO THE INDIVIDUAL TEXT MESSAGES IN HERE AS WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED.
JUDGE DAVILA: WELL, AS FAR AS AUTHENTICITY, THAT'S FINE. THEY CAN BE ADMITTED UNDER 902, 901. SO I'LL ADMIT THEM FOR THAT PURPOSE. BUT YOU'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH ANY SPECIFIC --
MR. LEACH: NOT TODAY, YOUR HONOR. I JUST WANT TO ENSURE THAT THAT HURDLE IS OVERCOME AND THERE'S NOT A NEED TO RECALL MR. OFFEN ON THAT BASIS.
JUDGE DAVILA: SURE. ALL RIGHT. UNDERSTOOD. SO IT'S ADMITTED FOR THAT PURPOSE, 901, 902. ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL OBJECTIONS CAN BE RAISED AT A LATER TIME. BUT THIS WITNESS WILL NOT BE NEEDED TO TESTIFY AS TO AUTHENTICITY. IS THAT RIGHT?
MS. TREFZ: WE AGREE, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT.
(GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 5387A WAS RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.)
MR. LEACH: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT?
JUDGE DAVILA: YES.
(DISCUSSION AMONGST GOVERNMENT COUNSEL OFF THE RECORD.)
MR. LEACH: THANK YOU, MR. OFFEN. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
MS. TREFZ: BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: MS. TREFZ.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. TREFZ:
MS. TREFZ: HELLO, MR. OFFEN. MY NAME IS KATIE TREFZ. I REPRESENT MS. HOLMES.
JUSTIN OFFEN: HELLO.
MS. TREFZ: I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU, STARTING WITH THE FOLLOWING: WE SAW EARLIER WHEN YOU WERE DISCUSSING EXHIBIT 5386 THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE MESSAGES INCLUDED HERE WERE FROM MS. HOLMES'S IPHONE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AND WHEN WAS THAT COLLECTION DONE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: JANUARY OF 2017.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THAT COLLECTION CAPTURED WHATEVER MESSAGES WERE ON THE IPHONE AS OF JANUARY 2017?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. THE FORMAT THAT WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT IN 5387B, THAT IS NOT HOW WE WOULD NORMALLY SEE IT WHEN -- SEE MESSAGES WHEN WE LOOK AT THEM ON OUR PHONES; CORRECT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AND YOU PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR THE PURPOSE OF COMBINING VARIOUS SOURCES AND PRESENTING IT HERE TODAY?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AT THE -- YOU TESTIFIED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE COLUMN TITLED RECORD.
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MS. TREFZ: AND I BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT THIS WAS AN IDENTIFICATION NUMBER THAT YOU CREATED IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO TELL DIFFERENT MESSAGES FROM EACH OTHER TO GIVE THEM ALL UNIQUE NUMBERS; IS THAT RIGHT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: THE SOFTWARE CREATED THE I.D. AS PART OF THE INGESTION PROCESS, YES.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. AND CAN YOU GIVE US SOME INSIGHT AS TO HOW THEY'RE ORDERED? LIKE, WHAT -- WE CAN SEE THE DIFFERENT NUMBERS GO FROM, YOU KNOW, JUST STARTING, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH PAGE 1 OF 5387B, WE CAN SEE THE NUMBERS GO FROM 7317, 7344, 7349. HOW DO WE -- HOW WERE THOSE NUMBERED AND IN WHAT ORDER?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YEAH. SO THE SOFTWARE THAT WE LEVERAGE THAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, AXIOM, WHEN IT INGESTS THE EVIDENCE FILE FROM THE PHONE, IT ASSIGNS A SEQUENCE IN THE ORDER IN WHICH IT WRITES IT TO ITS OWN INTERNAL DATABASE. SO IT SIMPLY IS JUST AN INCREMENTAL NUMBER IN TERMS OF HOW IT READS IT INTO THE DATABASE.
MS. TREFZ: AND IS THERE A -- DOES IT READ IT IN IN A DATE OR TIME ORDER?
JUSTIN OFFEN: WHAT IT DOES IS IT INGESTS IT FROM THE EVIDENCE FILE AND THE RECORDS ARE STORED ON THE PHONE IN THE EVIDENCE FILE IN A SEQUENTIAL ORDER, BUT WE LEVERAGE PARALLEL PROCESSING, WHICH IS A COMMON WAY THAT DATABASES EXECUTE FOR PURPOSES OF EFFICIENCY AND LESS TIME IF YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF PROCESSING POWER.
MS. TREFZ: UNDERSTOOD.
JUSTIN OFFEN: SO OFTENTIMES THE NUMBERS ARE READ IN IN DIFFERENT -- I'M SORRY, THE RECORDS ARE READ IN IN DIFFERENT SEQUENCES BASED UPON THE PARALLEL PROCESSOR.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. TURNING TO THE COLUMN THAT SAYS MESSAGE SENT, DATE/TIME, ALL OF THE MESSAGES INCLUDED HERE ARE FROM MS. HOLMES'S DEVICES; CORRECT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT. THEY CAME OFF OF ONE OF THE THREE DEVICES WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, YES.
MS. TREFZ: AND THERE WERE THREE DEVICES, BUT THESE ARE ALL FROM MS. HOLMES'S DEVICES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AND SOME OF THE EMAILS OR MESSAGES, EXCUSE ME, ARE FROM, ARE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES, AND SO I WONDERED IF YOU COULD HELP EXPLAIN WHETHER MESSAGE SENT, DATE/TIME SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE MESSAGE RECEIVED/TIME IF IT'S -- IF THE RECIPIENT IS MS. HOLMES RATHER THAN THE SENDER?
JUSTIN OFFEN: SO THIS IS PART OF THE METADATA THAT IS CONTAINED WITHIN THE MESSAGES, AND WHEN A MESSAGE COMES THROUGH ON THE EVIDENCE FILE, IT RETAINS A SENT DATE AND A RECEIVED DATE. WE CHOSE, FOR CONSISTENCY PURPOSES, TO HAVE SENT DATE ON ALL OF THEM. SO THIS SHOULD BE WHEN A MESSAGE WAS SENT, IN THIS CASE FROM MR. BALWANI TO MS. HOLMES, THE SENT DATE IS STILL THE DATE SENT FROM BALWANI WHICH COMES THROUGH ON THE METADATA ON THE MESSAGE.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. AND THEN YOU MENTIONED EARLIER TIME ZONES, AND I WONDERED HERE WHAT TIME ZONE ARE THESE IN?
JUSTIN OFFEN: UTC.
MS. TREFZ: AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT UTC IS?
JUSTIN OFFEN: SURE. IT STANDS FOR UNIVERSE TIME COORDINATED. IT IS THE COMPUTER VERSION OF GREENWICH MEAN TIME, BUT IT'S EFFECTIVELY LONDON OR THE PRIME MERIDIAN.
MS. TREFZ: AND THOSE OF US WHO WORK A LOT WITH ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS ARE WELL FAMILIAR WITH THIS PHENOMENON, BUT JUST TO FAMILIARIZE EVERYBODY ELSE WITH THIS, THAT'S EITHER SEVEN OR EIGHT HOURS FROM PACIFIC TIME; CORRECT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT. UTC DOESN'T HAVE DAYLIGHT SAVINGS, SO DEPENDING ON THE TIME OF YEAR, IT WOULD BE SEVEN OR EIGHT.
MS. TREFZ: SO WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE, IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TIME IT WAS ACTUALLY SENT OR RECEIVED, THEN IT WOULD EITHER BE SEVEN HOURS EARLIER OR EIGHT HOURS EARLIER IF YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AND THIS HAS NOT -- ALL OF THESE TIMES ARE IN GREENWICH MEAN TIME, OR UTC; CORRECT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AND SO IF MS. HOLMES IS IN CALIFORNIA AND MR. BALWANI IS ON THE EAST COAST, WHAT YOU SEE IS GREENWICH MEAN TIME REGARDLESS, OR UTC REGARDLESS?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU SORTED THE SPREADSHEET, I TAKE IT, FIRST OF ALL, THAT YOU DID SORT THE SPREADSHEET IN ORDER TO COME UP WITH THE NUMBERS OR THE MESSAGES IN THIS ORDER?
JUSTIN OFFEN: WE SORTED BY MESSAGE SENT, DATE/TIME.
MS. TREFZ: AND IF TWO MESSAGES WERE SENT AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, AND THERE IS AT LEAST ONE EXAMPLE, HOW DID YOU -- HOW DID IT DETERMINE WHICH MESSAGE WAS FIRST?
JUSTIN OFFEN: I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE SECONDARY SORT IS. SO IT'S THE QUESTION OF, WHAT IS THE SORT ORDER IF THERE'S A TIE? I DO NOT KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHAT THE SECONDARY SORT IS.
MS. TREFZ: OKAY. CAN WE BRIEFLY BRING UP AS AN EXAMPLE 5387B, WHICH WE KNOW IS IN EVIDENCE, PAGE 67.
JUSTIN OFFEN: WHAT IS THE BATES NUMBER ON THAT, PLEASE?
MS. TREFZ: THAT IS -- THAT'S THE -- SORRY. THAT'S THE BATES 67.
JUSTIN OFFEN: GREAT, BATES 67.
MS. TREFZ: AND I'M NOT SURE WHICH -- IT'S MAYBE ABOUT SIX PAGES LONG.
COURT CLERK: THAT'S PAGE 4, COUNSEL.
MS. TREFZ: PAGE 4. THANK YOU.
MS. TREFZ: AND IF WE CAN JUST FOCUS ON THE FIRST TWO MESSAGES THERE. SO YOU SEE IN THESE TWO MESSAGES THEN THAT THEY'RE BOTH SENT AT THE EXACT SAME TIME?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MS. TREFZ: AND THEN IF I CAN TURN YOUR ATTENTION BACK TO 3481, WHICH IS IN YOUR -- IN THE BINDER UP THERE.
JUSTIN OFFEN: THE EXHIBIT?
MS. TREFZ: CORRECT, EXHIBIT 3481, AND THE PAGE ENDING IN 599.
JUSTIN OFFEN: I'M SORRY. I APOLOGIZE. YOU'RE SAYING THE -- WHICH EXHIBIT?
MS. TREFZ: BINDER -- WITNESS BINDER ONE OF TWO.
JUSTIN OFFEN: I DO NOT HAVE THAT I DON'T BELIEVE.
MS. TREFZ: DO YOU NOT HAVE THAT UP THERE ANYMORE?
JUSTIN OFFEN: I HAD IT EARLIER, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE IT ANYMORE.
MS. TREFZ: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
JUDGE DAVILA: YES.
MS. TREFZ: (HANDING.)
MS. TREFZ: APOLOGIES.
JUSTIN OFFEN: NO, NO PROBLEM. WHICH PAGE, PLEASE?
MS. TREFZ: 3481, THE PAGE ENDING 599.
JUSTIN OFFEN: 599.
MS. TREFZ: AND, MR. BENNETT, IF YOU COULD KEEP THE OTHER ONE UP. JUST COMPARE THE TWO MESSAGES AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE ENDING 599 WITH THE TWO ON THE SCREEN.
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MS. TREFZ: AND YOU SEE HERE THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT ORDER; RIGHT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: YES.
MS. TREFZ: AND SO IN TERMS OF WHICH -- THERE'S A FURTHER RESPONSIVE EMAIL OR TEXT MESSAGE, IF WE CAN TAKE ONE MORE DOWN, MR. BENNETT. THE MESSAGE "YES," IT'S NOT CLEAR WHICH ONE THAT ACTUALLY COMES RIGHT AFTER; CORRECT?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT. IT COMES AFTER THE TWO PREVIOUS MESSAGES, YES.
MS. TREFZ: AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW MS. HOLMES SAW THE FIRST TWO MESSAGES?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: AND THAT WOULD BE THE CASE WITH ANY OF THE OTHER ONES THAT ARE SENT AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, WE DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE CAME FIRST IN TERMS OF HOW IT WAS VIEWED BY MS. HOLMES OR MR. BALWANI?
JUSTIN OFFEN: CORRECT.
MS. TREFZ: I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: MR. LEACH, ANYTHING FURTHER?
MR. LEACH: NO, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: MAY THIS WITNESS BE EXCUSED?
MR. LEACH: YES, YOUR HONOR. SUBJECT TO OUR DISCUSSION EARLIER, BUT, YES.
JUDGE DAVILA: IT SOUNDS LIKE WE WON'T NEED HIM. IS THAT RIGHT, MS. TREFZ.
MS. TREFZ: YES. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. LET ME ASK, WILL THE GOVERNMENT HAVE A WITNESS FRIDAY MORNING?
MR. BOSTIC: YES, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: AND THAT WILL BE AT 9:00 O'CLOCK?
MR. BOSTIC: YES, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: LET'S TAKE OUR RECESS. I APPRECIATE YOUR ACCOMMODATION TODAY. I APPRECIATE IT. I THINK I SAID WE WOULD GO TO 3:00 ON FRIDAY AS WELL. WILL THAT WORK FOR YOU? THANK YOU. I DON'T SEE ANY HANDS THAT SAY NO. SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR PATIENCE. LET ME REMIND YOU OF THE ADMONITION. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO ENCOUNTER ANYTHING IN THE MEDIA, YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA, SPEAK TO ANY INDIVIDUAL, OR READ ANYTHING THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACTS OF THIS CASE OR ANYONE INVOLVED WITH IT. I'LL ASK YOU THAT QUESTION FRIDAY MORNING. HAVE A GOOD EVENING. HAVE A GOOD DAY OFF TOMORROW. WE'LL SEE YOU FRIDAY MORNING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
(JURY OUT AT 4:12 P.M.)
JUDGE DAVILA: PLEASE BE SEATED. THANK YOU. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE JURY HAS LEFT FOR THE DAY. ALL COUNSEL AND MS. HOLMES ARE PRESENT. ANYTHING FURTHER BEFORE WE BREAK TODAY? WHAT IS OUR SCHEDULE? WE WILL HAVE WITNESSES FOR -- THAT WILL TAKE UP THE ENTIRETY OF OUR TIME ON FRIDAY, I TAKE IT.
MR. SCHENK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
JUDGE DAVILA: GREAT. OKAY. AND DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY ISSUES ABOUT ANY EVIDENCE FOR FRIDAY? SHOULD I HAVE MS. -- SHOULD I HAVE OUR COURT REPORTER COME IN AT 5:30 FRIDAY MORNING?
MR. WADE: WELL, SHE WAKES UP AT 5:00, SO IT SEEMS LIKE SHE COULD CERTAINLY BE HERE AT 5:30. IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, WE WILL CONFER WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND LET YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE GIVEN THE ESTIMATE OF THE AMOUNT OF TIME.
JUDGE DAVILA: GREAT. THAT WILL BE HELPFUL FOR OUR SCHEDULING PURPOSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT.
COURT CLERK: COURT IS ADJOURNED.
(COURT ADJOURNED AT 4:14 P.M.)